Author Topic: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?  (Read 6440 times)

Offline AGP

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Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« on: August 03, 2008, 04:52:50 pm »
I understand why you didn't have one at first. And maybe don't even include as the main API. But couldn't you build your own skeletal extension, or else study Cyberkilla's and write a loader? Because his OgreXML loader is both limiting and broken. I could send you my models as proff, if you'd be willing to test them. You'll find they load on Max and Maya, but don't on Cyberkilla's API. And a skeletal structure is such a pivotal thing for most games.

Offline EgonOlsen

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2008, 05:37:33 pm »
I simply don't have the time to do something like that ATM. Whenever i find the time to code, i'm either working a little bit on my own game or adding some smaller things to jPCT. The best idea would be to fix Cyber's API IMHO. Maybe aikarele is going to (read: have to....) do this, if he runs into the same problems like you?! Or try to do it yourself. I guess the ORGE format is documented somehow, so it should be possible to figure out what's wrong with that loader. BTW: What IS wrong with the loader? Do you have a screen shot that shows the problem?

Offline AGP

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2008, 06:52:05 pm »
It doesn't load. Most of the times it reads all the bones and crashes before reading the mesh. This latest attempt is crashing just before reading the "bone hierarchies"(whatever that means). I could write a simple loader, provided he created the addBone(SimpleVector p1, SimpleVector p2) method for which I asked a year go (not that he has to comply, of course!). Or the source code of his loader, but that would probably be tough. Anyway, the command prompt screen of the latest, but not most succesful (although that's really arbitrary at this point) attempt:

Offline EgonOlsen

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2008, 07:04:36 pm »
Isn't that a quite good starting point for debugging? It should be possible to track down a null pointer. Maybe that model has no "bone hierarchies" or something like that?

Offline AGP

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2008, 07:14:52 pm »
Egon, as always, thank you for the attention. You rock. But I read the file, and it has the following section. So no, not having a "bone hierarchy" isn't the problem. Like I said, Max and Maya can read these files.

Code: [Select]
<bonehierarchy>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Calf" parent="Bip01_L_Thigh"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Clavicle" parent="Bip01_Neck"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Foot" parent="Bip01_L_Calf"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Forearm" parent="Bip01_L_UpperArm"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Hand" parent="Bip01_L_Forearm"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Thigh" parent="Bip01_Spine"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Toe0" parent="Bip01_L_Foot"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_Toe0Nub" parent="Bip01_L_Toe0"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_L_UpperArm" parent="Bip01_L_Clavicle"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_Pelvis" parent="Bip01"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Calf" parent="Bip01_R_Thigh"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Clavicle" parent="Bip01_Neck"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Foot" parent="Bip01_R_Calf"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Forearm" parent="Bip01_R_UpperArm"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Hand" parent="Bip01_R_Forearm"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Thigh" parent="Bip01_Spine"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Toe0" parent="Bip01_R_Foot"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_Toe0Nub" parent="Bip01_R_Toe0"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_R_UpperArm" parent="Bip01_R_Clavicle"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_Spine" parent="Bip01_Pelvis"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_Spine1" parent="Bip01_Spine"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_Spine2" parent="Bip01_Spine1"/>
<boneparent bone="Bip01_Spine3" parent="Bip01_Spine2"/>
</bonehierarchy>

Offline fireside

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2008, 10:26:38 pm »
Quote
I simply don't have the time to do something like that ATM. Whenever i find the time to code, i'm either working a little bit on my own game or adding some smaller things to jPCT.

Jpct really has core functionality.  It would be nice as an outside library, but a small engine on the web is kind of a necessity.  There's already JME for the everything engine, but on a phone modem, I can't even load the JME demos.
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Offline Mizuki Takase

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 04:55:42 pm »
Admtitingly AGP, I tried to use Cyberkilla's Skeletal API, and that did not work for me either. As you have stated, the feature is very pivotal. I still love JPCT though~!

To Egon and AGP: Nowadays, I find my game programming skills severely lacking and have decided to explore 3D modeling. Since you two are both actively working on your game projects, if you two would like any modeling done, please feel free to ask me.

To fireside: Maybe it is because of my programming skills or something, but I find JME to be really hard to use. Are you comfortable with that engine? If so, I am curious if there was a nice and easy-to-read tutorial.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 04:58:13 pm by Mizuki Takase »

Offline AGP

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 06:17:58 pm »
Mizuki, if you find yourself able to build me a rigged human character that works with this skeletal API, I'd sure love it. Thanks for offering, and we might be able to work something out.

Offline Mizuki Takase

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 09:30:47 pm »
I always thought that Cyberkilla's Skeletal API was based off the OgreXML format, but is not exactly that. I have asked him for help a couple of times, but around that time, I could not spend enough time to study the API. So, sadly, I cannot build a rigged human character that works with his skeletal API. I can do 3D modeling though... ^_^

Offline fireside

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2008, 10:18:21 pm »
Quote
To fireside: Maybe it is because of my programming skills or something, but I find JME to be really hard to use. Are you comfortable with that engine? If so, I am curious if there was a nice and easy-to-read tutorial.

No, I've just looked at it, but I thought the tutorials were all right.  It's a slow go with 3d engines because there is a lot to do.  JME is considered one of the user friendly ones.  One thing I've found out so far is that it's a lot easier to setup projects in Netbeans than it is Eclipse, and setting up a project is a big part of the battle.   I'm a little more interested in doing very small applet type games on the net so Jpct is a better fit for me.  Frame animation will be adequate for what I plan to do. 
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Offline AGP

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 12:51:44 am »
Mizuki, could you and would you be willing to post what he wrote to you? Because by everything I've read, OgreXML is exactly what his loader loads.

Offline EgonOlsen

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 07:05:00 am »
AGP, please check your mail configuration. I got Mizuki's personal message notifications to you returned as bounces, because the "mailbox is suspended".

Offline Mizuki Takase

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 04:00:06 pm »
Scary~! Anyway, since I do have Blender and a rigged model that I made, I did export to Ogre3D XML and tried the XML on Cyberkilla's skeleton viewer; the model loaded... (The model did not export fully and properly, but it was enough to show proof that the skeleton API seem to work)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 04:27:40 pm by Mizuki Takase »

Offline AGP

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 05:11:29 pm »
Egon, thanks a lot (I had not used that account in years).

Mizuki, then could and would you build me a character? : -)

Offline fireside

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Re: Egon, What About Your Own Skeletal Extension?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2008, 11:22:36 pm »
What I would do is to use the examples that he provided and then slowly increase the model complexity until you find out where the problem is located.  I'm not much good at debugging things that don't work.  It's a lot harder.  I need to start with something that works.  I asked him a while back and he said it was the Ogre spec.
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