Author Topic: Uhmm Poser models ?  (Read 3386 times)

Offline cintix

  • byte
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Uhmm Poser models ?
« on: August 20, 2009, 05:30:44 pm »
Hi guys,

Just a quick question.
Have anyone of you had any luck, exporting Poser Models in any format, and then using them in JPCT ?

I own a Poser Pro edtion for my MAC, and it but great to use the models in JPCT.
I tried a few times, but I never went all that well. The amount of polys in the Poser models, seem to be HUGE.

Even if I increse the amount of visible Polys. Then it still does'nt seem right.  Only some of the figures seem to be showing.
Then there is the bit about all of the textures.

Well I would love to hear from you guys if you tried this.

Cintix
Faith is for the weak...

Offline mystara

  • int
  • **
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 10:04:16 am »
Poser models are well known for their enormous numbers of polygons, which are hard to reduce. They're not designed for use in games.

Besides, you're not allowed to distribute the models used in poser. Which means even if you could import them in to JPCT, you couldn't give your program to anyone :(

Offline cintix

  • byte
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 01:21:21 pm »
ohhh :(

Well thanks alot for your reply though. :)
I guess i'm back to modeling the models for my self in C4D.

Have anyone seen any exporters for Cinema 4D to MD2 files ?

Faith is for the weak...

Offline paulscode

  • double
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
    • View Profile
    • PaulsCode.Com
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 11:26:18 pm »
It is possible to reduce the polys of a super high-poly model way down (to 2K or lower), but it takes a little work, and of course you loose an enormous amount of detail.  On the other hand, you can avoid the licensing issue entirely if you use only the reduced mesh, draw your own textures, and U/V map the model yourself, because you are not using any part of the copyrighted material in your program, and the reduced mesh is quite different than the original high-poly mesh.

I've never actually done this for Poser, but I have for Daz Studio, which is basically the same thing as Poser.

What you need for this method:
1) A way to convert .obj into .wrl (I use Autodesk 3DS Max - you'll need the proper importers and exporters for your modeling program)
2) VIZup Free Edition, version 1.8 or earlier (later versions require a paid registration to export)
3) A way to import .wrl into your modelling program for editing.

What you do:
1) Start by exporting only the head of your Poser model into .obj format.  I usually remove the eyes and add them back later after reducing the head's polys.
2) Convert the .obj into .wrl (discard any textures, since you are not using them anyway)
3) Load the head .wrl into VIZup, and reduce the polys to as low as you can get them while still being able to distinguish the nose, eyes, and ears (Usually can't get any lower than around 800-900 polys).  Don't worry about a few gaps in the mesh - you can weld these shut later.
4) Save the new low-poly head to .wrl format.
5) Import the head into your modelling program.
6) All the vertices will be disjointed and there will be gaps in the mesh.  This is where the work comes in - you will need to meticulously weld together vertices that are close to eachother to fill in the gaps.  Avoid the temptation to divide or add polys unless absolutely necessary - poly count adds up quickly.  This usually takes me about 6-8 hours to do for a head to make it look nice.
7) Add the eyes if you removed them (may require adding a few extra polys around the eye sockets first).

Repeat this process for the rest of the body.  I usually remove the fingers and toes, since they disappear during reduction anyway, and add them back later (as I did with the eyes).  The reason I do the head and body seperately, is because the body can usually be reduced further than the head (around 400 - 500 polys at the minimum).

After combining the head and body and welding them together, you can texture them, set up a skeletal heirarchy, and animate.  The entire process takes several days, but there is a benefit to creating models this way - there is a more natral non-symetric feel to the model which is very difficult to produce from scratch (models designed from scratch are often "too perfect", which gives them an strangely uncanny appearance if you try to texture them with actual photographs).  I find that low-poly models produced with this method are much easier to texture, and the imperfections are much more believable.

Offline EgonOlsen

  • Administrator
  • quad
  • *****
  • Posts: 11745
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jpct.net
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 07:24:57 am »
Wouldn't that be a nice addition to the wiki!?

Offline mystara

  • int
  • **
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 07:28:19 am »
I was under the impression this still wasn't permitted since you couldn't distribute derivatives of the poser models?

Offline paulscode

  • double
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
    • View Profile
    • PaulsCode.Com
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 11:57:51 am »
You are correct that could be an interpretation of the licensing - it comes down to the question of how much of the original is required for something to be a derived work.  One could make a similar argument if an artist were to study a Poser model to learn how to make a model, then recreate it entirely themselves.  I would argue that models reduced in the way I outlined here are simply not recognizable as the original - they merely create a humanoid form which requires significant work to get into a usable model.  The original author should have nothing to fear about losing their intellectual property.  Of course, there is no way to be immune from lawsuits, so one should make up their own mind - I've simply outlined how it can be done.

Offline paulscode

  • double
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
    • View Profile
    • PaulsCode.Com
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 10:53:40 pm »

Offline EgonOlsen

  • Administrator
  • quad
  • *****
  • Posts: 11745
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jpct.net
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 09:41:10 am »

Offline cintix

  • byte
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 10:05:23 am »
Thank you all for some great tips and tricks! :-)
I startet modeling some characters on my own.

That brings me to another small question ? I'm going to use either 3DS or OBJ models on my game.
What poly-count would be optimal for a character ? I'm thinking somewhere between 2000-5000, but I'm not sure.

What do you guys think ?

//Cintix
Faith is for the weak...

Offline paulscode

  • double
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
    • View Profile
    • PaulsCode.Com
Re: Uhmm Poser models ?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 12:18:19 pm »
I'm thinking somewhere between 2000-5000, but I'm not sure.
I believe that is about where World of Warcraft characters are.  Obviously, the closer the camera is to the characters, the more detail you generally want.  On the other hand, if the terrain and objects have a higher poly count or if there are numerous characters visible at a time, it could influence what poly count you want to use for your characters.  You kind of have to play around with the numbers to balance realism with performance to fit your specific game.