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jPCT-AE - a 3d engine for Android => Projects => Topic started by: EgonOlsen on December 17, 2011, 11:42:01 pm

Title: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 17, 2011, 11:42:01 pm
Edit: This is a split from the topic in the projects section for desktop jPCT. This deals with the Android version, which is most likely the way i'll go...if anything...

I'm still planning to port this thing to Android within this month. To prepare for this, i reduced the polygon count of the terrain (have to do this some more for Android) and reverted from phong shaded terrain and trees to gouraud shaded ones...the visual outcome is very very similar in this case. I also added some additional stuff to jPCT and jPCT-AE to reduce memory usage for cloned objects.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 20, 2011, 12:21:27 am
The same code straight ported to Android OpenGL ES2.0 but with reduced terrain details and tree count:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and.png)

On my Nexus S, this "runs" @ around 10 fps with full collision detection and stuff...not very amazing. In addition, it needs quite a lot of memory and i'm not sure if it will run on a 2.x VM this way (i'm on 4.0 now, which has up to 48mb of VM memory available).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Bryan on December 20, 2011, 02:25:07 am
OH wow, it still looks really great even on the phone. Shame it's only running with 10 frames a second. But still.. ;D
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 20, 2011, 06:52:54 am
It's just a mindless port for now. There's room for improvement...the textures are pretty large for a mobile device, the shaders aren't optimized at all, the view distance is pretty high and maybe rendering these tiny little plants makes no sense at all on such a small display...we'll see.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2011, 12:37:59 am
Added some basic controls to the Android version, replaced the sky dome with a sky box, decreased view distance, optimized tree processing...

It now runs with full collision detection @9-13fps, which actually feels better than it sounds. However, there's no game logic except for the plants' visibility processing...which seems to be slower than the collision detection, which is odd. Anyway, this scene renders @ 13fps:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and2.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: AGP on December 21, 2011, 12:50:26 am
Very cool, man. You're so good with jpct it's almost as if you wrote it. :-) How many polygons total? Is the  Skybox class not available on Android (why would you have started using a sphere?)? How far is the far plane on Android?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Bryan on December 21, 2011, 04:00:28 am
Well hey it still looks great man. I am sure that's totally a playable fps, just have to see how it goes with some game logic. Keep us updated! I check this thread everyday lol
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2011, 10:41:42 am
Tweaked the terrain shader...it's 50% faster now, so that the start scene increases from 13 fps to 19 fps...not bad for changing a single line of code in the shader...

I tested it briefly on a Samsung Galaxy S2 (the one with the Mali 400 GPU). It worked fine and ran fast, albeit the shader accuracy lacks behind PowerVR's.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2011, 10:55:58 pm
Tweaked the shaders some more (start scene up to 23 fps now), shrunk some textures, replaced some textures, improved collision detection and multi touch controls (multi touch with the Android SDK feels...weird, doesn't it?)...

After all the work was done, i visited the forest:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and3.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2011, 11:21:45 pm
How many polygons total? Is the  Skybox class not available on Android (why would you have started using a sphere?)? How far is the far plane on Android?
Not sure about the polygon count...the terrain has around 7000 IIRC, each tree has ~200. The bushes and houses have...i don't know. The sky is a sky box, the class is available on Android too. I started with a sky dome, because i had one...no particular reason. The far plan is at 5500 for now, distance fog starts at 4000.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Bryan on December 22, 2011, 02:26:49 am
Wow the graphics remain pretty constant even as you're increasing the frame rate. Nice job
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 22, 2011, 10:08:14 pm
BTW: Lots of free music that fits nice to this kind of game IMHO: http://www.jsayles.com/familypages/earlymusic.htm (http://www.jsayles.com/familypages/earlymusic.htm)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 23, 2011, 11:22:30 pm
Added basic support for animated objects, i.e. monsters and NPCs. The world is now populated by one goblin that plays it's idle animation over and over again...i have to dig for my old Android optimized A* algorithm to make him move. Anyway, here he is @ 19fps:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and4.png)

...and with an evil grin on his face...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and5.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Bryan on December 24, 2011, 12:03:35 am
Hahaha that grin!  :D
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 28, 2011, 12:56:09 am
Did some more refactoring to prepare for moving NPCs and tweaked the shaders again. The start scene is now at 27 fps and the bushes (like the trees) are now animated in the vertex shader too. That's actually faster than not doing it, because it reduces the overhead of shader switching between trees and bushes.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 29, 2011, 12:08:29 am
I wasn't really satisfied with the performance in motion...while it was fine when standing still, it suffered greatly from moving. My first thought was that this was caused by the additional collision detection that takes place in that case, so i optimized that part of jPCT-AE some more. This wasn't totally pointless and it improved the engine's overall performance...but for this problem, it didn't really help.
I then realized that the performance drop came from the visibility detection for trees and bushes...and that's something that happens inside the game, not the engine. A part of this process uses Math.acos()...which is slow, so i replaced it with some approximation...which was fine, but didn't really help either... :(
I then tweaked the method that does the actual visibility checks (some simple distance and angle checks, but done for thousands of entities per frame) to death. That finally helped. I reduced the time spend in this method from around ~25ms to ~10ms per frame just by doing a lot of micro optimizations. The code now looks like as if somebody has puked java keywords...but it's fast.
So...as much as the Dalvik VM has improved over time, it's still very keen on micro optimizations.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 30, 2011, 12:33:06 am
He's walking!

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and6.png)

Currently, he walks around in a radius of 8000 units around his spawn point. He chooses a random target and gets there using some tweaked A* heuristic. Once he reached the target, he idles for a few seconds and then chooses a new target. He follows the terrain (to a degree....) by using a 800*800 heightmap with linear interpolation between the cells and some additional interpolation based on it's last position...the result isn't perfect but acceptable. He is able to avoid trees and houses because the heightmap reserves one bit for marking obstacles (yes...that's hacky, but it saves memory on Android...). When not in view, he doesn't move at all (which has to be changed to a degree, because otherwise, you could abuse it).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on December 30, 2011, 01:51:18 pm
21 fps is not much. Have you divided the surface into multiple parts? Maybe it can help with collision and rendering. But game look nice, I look forward to some testing version :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 30, 2011, 09:26:05 pm
Actually, i think 21 fps is pretty good for what it does. In fact, it's higher than i expected it to run at. The terrain consists of around 6300 triangles. I'm using an octree for collision detection (without it, performance is around 10 fps instead) but not for rendering, because it's usually faster to render everything in one draw call even if only a small part is actually visible than to split the geometry into pieces (like the leafs of an octree) and use multiple draw calls after determining which parts are actually visible. The additional overhead is higher than letting the gpu decide in most cases...at least in this one. The terrain uses four texture layers blended by a custom shader, the visibility processing for bushes, trees and houses has to be done, which means that around 8000 entities have to be processed (more or less...) each frame, the animation takes it share as well as the A* implementation and finally, all trees, bushes and the smoke from the chimneys are all animated...i think that 21 fps is pretty good for all this. At least, i haven't seen anything like that done in an RPG on Android. Stuff like Earth and Legend looks great, but it's world is divided into small sections and each of them is extremely limited in size...not comparable to the open world that you have here...
My goal is to make it playable on a Galaxy S class device...i don't expect it to run well on less powerful devices. I don't think that i'll finish this before the end of next year...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 04, 2012, 12:17:59 am
Added foot steps and random bird sounds as well a rough day/night transition. I've also fixed a misconfiguration of the lens flare, which reduced performance somewhat.

This is in bright day light...

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and7.png)

...and this at night...

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and8.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on January 04, 2012, 04:14:37 am
Very nice! Any thoughts on game-play?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 04, 2012, 10:30:59 pm
Very nice! Any thoughts on game-play?
Or in others words: Why am i focusing so much on technical things and not on the actual game? Well...that's because i'm still not sure how much content i can stuff into the device and that actually defines how far i can go gameplay wise. Before starting with the actual game, i want to be sure that the device can handle it.
ATM, i'm planning to revive the fantasy world that i created for my Amiga RPG twenty years ago...it was nothing special, just some AD&D inspired world with a dozen enemy types (i don't think that i can bring them all back here...), lots of dungeons (i still have to find a way to create dungeons that look good enough but are easy to make) and some quests as well as a main story line. Unlike in todays RPGS, the main story wasn't backed up by quests but it developed itself through hints you found and people you met on your journey through the dungeons and cities. I still like this idea, so maybe i'll do it this way again.
For inspiration, i played various other Android 3D RPGs, especially Realms of Fortune and Earth and Legend. While the latter has nice very graphics and effects, it's actually a bad RPG. It has a pointless story about some elementals that you have to free for whatever reason, stupid quests, static enemies, lots of grinding and the world is devided into very small sections.
Realms of Fortunes looks worse and has no real story at all as well as a random world. Personally, i don't like RPGS that have no story or purpose other than leveling up. But regardless of this, it pays attention to detail and is the far superior game compared to Earth and Legend...but the controls suck IMHO.
I'm currently planning to do it better... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 05, 2012, 11:40:31 pm
I made a little video that shows the current state: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vesmHaDCow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vesmHaDCow)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 06, 2012, 12:46:02 am
I like day and night transition, tree and shrub animation, it is smooth and nice :) And actually everything is nice, I look forward to some more screens and videos :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on January 06, 2012, 06:24:23 pm
That does look good! Very smooth indeed.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 08, 2012, 11:57:55 pm
City walls...currently, you can't enter the "city", because there's no gate or gap in the wall... ;) And the collision detection makes you jump onto the walls sometimes...anyway, here they are:

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and9.png)

Note: I just wanted to point out again that almost all artwork is ripped or used with permission. None of it is considered to be final...i'm just using it as a placeholder for the real thing...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 09, 2012, 10:36:18 pm
Leaving town...for this, i had to rework the gate-model in a way that it has open doors instead of either closed or crushes ones. I used DeleD as an editor, which was simple enough to use for me. Sadly, the door case of this gate has no top and i wasn't able to add one with my limited skill set...but it's all just placeholder art anyway, so...

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and10.png)

...and back again...

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and11.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Bryan on January 10, 2012, 02:50:32 am
The progress on this is really looking good man.

What are you using for modelling?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 10, 2012, 09:41:40 am
What are you using for modelling?
Actually nothing. As said, most meshes are either from the public domain or used with permission. I consider them to be placeholders and if the game is finally done, i'll go and see where to get proper models from. If i have to edit something (like i did with the gate mesh), i'm using this: http://www.delgine.com/ (http://www.delgine.com/)...it's simple enough to use. You can't do everything in it, but you can start working after 5min...you don't have to recover 5 weeks from the first shock like with Blender.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 11, 2012, 01:54:49 pm
Added fences to enclose areas where a stone wall isn't appropriate:

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and12.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: yindroid on January 11, 2012, 04:57:44 pm
God... its looks awesome!!! I've never seen such things on mobile devices, great job!!!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: yindroid on January 11, 2012, 05:08:26 pm
I wonder how did you made animated smoke?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 11, 2012, 09:24:49 pm
It's a very simple "particle system". I think i took the one from Alien Runner and modified it slightly.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: yindroid on January 12, 2012, 05:41:45 pm
I tried to make some particles like billboarded planes, but performance was very low, for example: 50 particles (without movement etc.) lowered fps from 55fps to 42fps (Samsung Galaxy i9000).
sorry for spam
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 13, 2012, 08:00:25 pm
I tried to make some particles like billboarded planes, but performance was very low, for example: 50 particles (without movement etc.) lowered fps from 55fps to 42fps (Samsung Galaxy i9000).
sorry for spam
No problem. I usually use triangles for particles to save one polygon/particle. That wastes some space in the texture, but i don't care. Performance depends on your implementation...i can't anything about that. Using one object/particle isn't very efficient anyway, but i'm always doing this myself...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 17, 2012, 09:30:52 pm
It never rains in southern california...but this isn't southern california, so...

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and13.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 17, 2012, 09:37:57 pm
Oh, nice ;) How did you done, blitted texture? Will be any new video? :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 17, 2012, 09:51:15 pm
Yes, it's simply a moving, blitted texture, which means that it doesn't take movement or orientation into account...but i think it looks good enough. It also darkens a scene a little.
About the video...not yet. Maybe in a few weeks when there's (hopefully) more to show.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 21, 2012, 11:53:48 pm
Added basic weapon "support"...well, not really support...it renders a sword that wobbles around and in theory, it might be able to render other weapons too...but you can't slash or put it away or anything like that.
Also added falling leaves (look out for the red circle...)...


(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and15.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: yindroid on January 22, 2012, 12:11:50 pm
Is there any way to test your game?... Android Market?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 22, 2012, 07:05:42 pm
Is there any way to test your game?... Android Market?
Not yet. Mainly because there is no game yet. It's more like a graphics tech demo where i'm adding stuff to see if i can accomplish everything that i have in mind for the actual game. The next part to add will be the first actual game play element, i.e. basic fighting.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 23, 2012, 10:26:49 pm
Hi Egan.   Cool project.  I've been kind of wandering around a bit as far as engines go, but maybe I could contribute some characters to your project.  I still use Blender a lot.  I'm not sure if they would be good enough for your final or not.  Let me know if you need something.  I like the Ogre character.  The houses and background don't look too bad either, really.  You could use a few more tree models.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 24, 2012, 09:55:12 pm
Let me know if you need something.
For now, i would be more than happy, if someone ( ;)) could fix the holes that the current models have. Houses and the gate are all build in a way that they are only correct when viewed from above. When viewed from the ground, they have holes because of missing polygons...interested?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 25, 2012, 12:16:40 am
Sure.  Just post them someplace where I can download them.  One thing you might want to look at for trees is Tree Magik G3. 
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2087
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 25, 2012, 09:23:10 am
It's looking quite good, shadows under the trees would spruce things up nicely.
Send a model or two to me if you wish. I can check the normals and patch up the holes.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 25, 2012, 10:19:01 am
It's looking quite good, shadows under the trees would spruce things up nicely.
Yes, but it would be too costly because it needs an additional render pass, a shader that can actually deal with the depth map and an additional texture layer on the terrain that i don't have ATM. I played around with blob-shadows baked into the terrain's texture. It worked ok, but because trees fade out in the distance while the blobs can't made it look strange...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 25, 2012, 11:07:28 am
I ran into the same problem recently and thought of a way to add partial tree shadows on a sloping terrain by adding planes with a darker grass texture that have the center of the plane pop up through the grass. The planes are all a single 3DS object so you can rotate them based on the surrounding terrain slope.

It looks fine in blender but didn't end up testing it in jPCT since I decided to just use shadow blobs and place the trees on flat parts of the terrain. Not sure if it would introduce clipping or z-buffer issues in OpenGL ES but something to consider nevertheless.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 25, 2012, 12:31:05 pm
Thought I'd give it a crack in jPCT and it didn't turn out too well, but a single plane with the center high looks fine imo. There is no rotation so a good chunk of one side is hidden under the terrain but the jagged edges can barely be seen.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 25, 2012, 01:47:28 pm
Looks fine...it might start to flicker due to zbuffer inaccuracies in the distance though. ATM, i don't want to introduce this additional overhead. The thousands of trees and bushes that i currently process are enough for now, but i'll keep the idea in mind.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 25, 2012, 02:29:40 pm
Yeah I think you have a point with the zbuffer issue, after a while I noticed that at some angles the jaggies can get quite large and considerably noticeable on a tablet. It's a rare occurrence but not really something you want the end user to see. An efficient shader is probably the best solution. I may just create extra polygons at tree locations in my terrain that use a darker grass texture to simulate the shadow.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 25, 2012, 03:39:12 pm
Looks fine...it might start to flicker due to zbuffer inaccuracies in the distance though. ATM, i don't want to introduce this additional overhead. The thousands of trees and bushes that i currently process are enough for now, but i'll keep the idea in mind.
You can merge objects, or is there any problem?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 25, 2012, 04:29:59 pm
You can merge objects, or is there any problem?

If you merge the one thousand objects into one huge single objects, I doubt it will make much difference since 3D performance seems to depend on how many polygons are rendered in the frame and the amount of pixels these polygons occupy.

jPCT creates vertex buffers that are pumped to the GPU at every frame, the organization of polygons before they are sent to the GPU has little affect to the 3D performance in general.

Well at least that is what I understand, I'm sure Egon can provide a more in-depth explanation.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 25, 2012, 04:57:18 pm
I mean one tree and something under tree, count of objects will be same.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 25, 2012, 08:55:46 pm
Merging the tree with that "plane" has the problem that the plane will be come transparent too (because the leafs already are). At least that's what would happen in my RPG thing. That already happens to the trunk, but that's not much of an issue. When merging it with the plane, you'll run into order issues between the trunk and the plane. Plus you'll have the same zbuffer issues and it wouldn't work on steep terrain.

About merging thousands of objects into a single one: It always a good idea to reduce the number of draw calls by merging objects. On the other hand, only a few trees are visible at a time so rendering them all as one large objects can hurt performance in this case. Plus it's a memory issue. I can reuse the mesh and the compiled data for each tree, so it's memory footprint to quite small. Merging them all into one objects will make the memory requirements explode, because it would result in a ~200,000 polygon object. So...if you can merge objects that are close together and you have the memory, do it. If not, maybe you shouldn't do it and use cloned instances instead.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 25, 2012, 10:25:38 pm
About the meshes with gaps...here they are: jpct.de/download/tmp/meshes.zip (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/meshes.zip). The gate suffers from a missing roof in the door way and the house from gaps between the first and the second floor.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 25, 2012, 11:27:14 pm
Here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/gate.obj) is gate. I hope that all coordinates will be correct, I never used export to OBJ file format. Strange, that your file have 30kB and my 15,6kB :o
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 26, 2012, 12:02:06 am
Here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/gate.obj) you is gate. I hope that all coordinates will be correct, I never used export to OBJ file format. Strange, that your file have 30kB and my 15,6kB :o
Many thanks. It's somehow translated -318 units in z direction, but i can easily fix that. Looks good now and i can finally enable backface culling on it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 26, 2012, 12:04:55 am
OK.  Looks like I got beat to it.  :)
If you possibly need an animated model you can't find, let me know.  Project looks great. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 26, 2012, 12:18:31 am
Here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/gate.obj) you is gate. I hope that all coordinates will be correct, I never used export to OBJ file format. Strange, that your file have 30kB and my 15,6kB :o
Many thanks. It's somehow translated -318 units in z direction, but i can easily fix that. Looks good now and i can finally enable backface culling on it.
I see. I did not any translation... If someone do not repair the house until morning, I look at it.

edit: I uploaded new file and hope, that will be ok now. Pivot of original and repaired object was in another place...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 26, 2012, 08:48:44 am
OK.  Looks like I got beat to it.  :)
If you possibly need an animated model you can't find, let me know.  Project looks great.
Well...if somebody wants to contribute some models, here's what i could use ATM:

Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 26, 2012, 10:07:15 am
I'll make the dungeon entrance for you, should be ready soon.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 26, 2012, 11:05:24 am
Here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/house.obj) is house and I hope, that everything will be all right  :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 26, 2012, 12:17:09 pm
Fixed a texture issue with the dungeon door and emailed it through. Let me know if there are any issues or if you would like more detail/polygons. I made it as simple as possible to avoid performance issues.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 26, 2012, 07:36:18 pm
OK, I'll work on the bow then.  Keyframes with 3ds, I guess? 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 26, 2012, 09:07:11 pm
OK, I'll work on the bow then.  Keyframes with 3ds, I guess?
I don't care about the format that much. MD2 would be fine too. Just not so many keyframes...memory is limited... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 26, 2012, 09:13:34 pm
New fixed gate and the house look great now. I can now enable backface culling for the house too, which should help to save some fillrate. Thanks again. Now on to the dungeon entrance...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 26, 2012, 09:46:47 pm
This is an untextured hand and bow just to try out.  It has about 350 faces or something.  If it exported properly and looks OK, I'll texture and animate it.
https://rapidshare.com/files/2414782160/bow.3ds
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 26, 2012, 11:48:13 pm
The dungeon entrance is in...of course, you can't enter it ATM. I've replaced the stone and the grass textures to recycle what i use for the terrain and the door texture, because it had a turbosquid watermark in it. It would be great if you could change the tiling for the grass texture...maybe *2 or *3, so that it fits the ground better.

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and16.png)

I'll try the bow tomorrow or at the weekend. I really appreciate all the help that i'm getting. This really helps me to overcome some hurdles in the development of this thing.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 27, 2012, 02:43:35 am
Look good, yeah those textures were just temporary ones. I'll multiply the grass texture later today. If you could send those three textures to me that would be great since I'll be able to align the coordinates to match your specific textures.

Edit: Smaller/multiplied grass emailed..
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 27, 2012, 08:16:11 pm
Edit: Smaller/multiplied grass emailed..
Version 3 looks just perfect, thank you.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 27, 2012, 09:33:10 pm
This is an untextured hand and bow just to try out.  It has about 350 faces or something.  If it exported properly and looks OK, I'll texture and animate it.
It's cool. Here's how it looks in all it's untextured glory:

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and17.png)

Edit: Maybe the string is a bit large? Half the size would do better IMHO.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 27, 2012, 10:33:30 pm
OK, I'll bring down the string size, texture and do the animation.  I think 3 key frames should do it.  One with the arrow at no bow pull, then one in between, and one full back.  Also, an arrow alone in case you need it in flight or stuck into something.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 27, 2012, 11:56:37 pm
Here it is:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3667882740/bowAnim.zip

Blender made a lot of changes so I hope it works out.  The arrow may be a little long but I didn't notice till I was finished.  The arrow is just black, no texture.  The bow and arm are supposed to be simple textured.  I'm not the greatest in Blender, especially with all the changes they made.  If it doesn't work, I can try again.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 28, 2012, 12:18:19 am
Looks good in the viewer...i'll try to add it to the "game" during the weekend.

Today, inspired by this "tree shadows" discussion lately, i decided to give the texture based solution another try and i baked a very simple, very subtle blob shadow into the ground texture for each tree. It looks ok IMHO. If nothing else, it makes the terrain appear more bumpy when many trees are in view, which isn't a bad thing.

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and18.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 28, 2012, 01:08:03 am
It looks a lot better I think.  Didn't that increase texture size? 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 28, 2012, 02:56:09 am
Those blobs make all the difference IMO despite being a simple addition. Nice.

That tree is the same one as in the jPCT demo's yeah? I slightly modified it to straighten out that pronounced fork in the trunk, removed 59 double vertices, rotated it natively for jPCT, and made some of the lower leave planes smaller so they don't stick out as much. It may improve performance a bit.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 28, 2012, 12:09:21 pm
That tree doesn't work well...with backface culling enabled, there are missing leaves and with backface culling disabled, the trunk has wrong lighting, because polygons from both sides show through.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 28, 2012, 04:47:17 pm
Ah ok the double-sided normals option in blender is dependent on the renderer so it seems that jPCT doesn't support this feature. I created the double sided planes manually and flip the normals, those extra vertices are back in business now.

Attached is the new tree.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 28, 2012, 04:49:00 pm
It looks a lot better I think.  Didn't that increase texture size?
No, it doesn't. It's just some additional stuff added to the already existing texture that i use for texture splatting.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 28, 2012, 06:12:46 pm
Ah ok the double-sided normals option in blender is dependent on the renderer so it seems that jPCT doesn't support this feature. I created the double sided planes manually and flip the normals, those extra vertices are back in business now.

Attached is the new tree.
The leaves look fine now...however, this model has a small problem with texturing. I think that the former one had that too, but it wasn't that obvious...
The problem is, that i have to enable transparency for the whole tree. The two parts of the texture (trunk and leaves) cause artifacts where the texture coordinates of the trunk are coming close to the leave texture...i don't know how to describe this in an understandable way...i'll post an image:

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/gaps.png)

Is it possible to make the trunk parts in question use texture coordinates that are a bit lower (i.e. farer away from the leave part of the texture)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 28, 2012, 06:29:37 pm
 :o that's a bit odd, looks like your texture is different to mine since mine renders fine using transparency. That can easily be fixed but I need your texture to align it properly.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 28, 2012, 08:50:59 pm
Sure. Here it is: (http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/tree3.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 28, 2012, 10:13:46 pm
Here it is:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3667882740/bowAnim.zip

Blender made a lot of changes so I hope it works out.  The arrow may be a little long but I didn't notice till I was finished.  The arrow is just black, no texture.  The bow and arm are supposed to be simple textured.  I'm not the greatest in Blender, especially with all the changes they made.  If it doesn't work, I can try again.
The texturing is fine and the bow looks cool in game. I've removed the arrow and will keep it as it's own separate object that simply translates during the animation. However, the animation itself doesn't look right. The bow somehow stretches when firing where it should actually just bend. Here's a video showing the problem: http://jpct.de/download/tmp/bow.mpg (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/bow.mpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 28, 2012, 10:21:42 pm
OK, yeah, that's because I was having trouble in Blender.  I'll go over it again.  I'm going to need to figure this out anyway.  I tried to sort of cheat and it backfired on me apparently. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 28, 2012, 10:38:48 pm
BTW, would you rather save the vertices on the lower part of the bow since it's not visible, or does that matter?  I may need to add a couple loops right where that bend is so it looks better.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 28, 2012, 10:41:39 pm
It doesn't matter ATM, but i would rather keep them just in case.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 29, 2012, 12:27:36 am
OK, I got bones to work this time, but I couldn't add a couple loops to make that bend look better because the model was triangulated already.  Check it out:

problem with that download, use link below.

I could redo the bow if the bend doesn't look good, yet.  There's only 3 animations without the arrow.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 29, 2012, 12:53:00 am
There was another problem I missed with the handle:
https://rapidshare.com/files/120595021/bowAnim3.zip

Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 29, 2012, 02:03:21 am
Using the Armature system in Blender may get that bow bending correctly. Or if you are using Armature's, I feel your pain. It's a headache getting it working properly..

Here's the new tree with modified texture co-ords. I couldn't replicate it in-game so I think it's something happening on your end. GLES20 texturing offset issue perhaps?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 29, 2012, 02:38:44 am
They say they are making Blender easier but I don't see it.  It seems to get harder and buggier with every release.  Still, it's amazing what people can do with it.  Their new action system took me forever to even find it and I seem to get more bones than what I want and they automatically weight themselves even when I choose not to do it.  It's getting better as I get more used to it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 29, 2012, 03:23:46 am
It has gotten a bit better in 2.61 but it's still a nightmare for beginners to learn the interface. However once you learn the key strokes and spagetti logic, meshes can be created in next to no time, much faster than most other 3D apps.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2012, 01:12:24 pm
Here's the new tree with modified texture co-ords. I couldn't replicate it in-game so I think it's something happening on your end. GLES20 texturing offset issue perhaps?
It's better but not good. It seems to happen when using mip-maps only and it doesn't happen in the desktop version, so i think it's an issue with inaccuracies of the mobile GPU and the mip-map-generation adding up. I had similar a issue with texture splatting when i tried to combine two textures in one.
I tried to fix it by modifying the texture, but that introduced artifacts at the edges of the leave-polygons. If you could clamp the texture coordinates for trunk and branches to a stay further away from the center, it should go away or at least remain unnoticed.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 29, 2012, 01:49:36 pm
That explains it, I have mipmapping turned off.

Attached is the modified tree with the offset well away from the leaves.. a good 5-6 pixels.

If still no good then send me the tree you were using before and I'll only modify the fork and lower leaves. Unless you are happy with your current tree.

Edit: would be nice if I actually attached the file  :P

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2012, 01:58:44 pm
If still no good then send me the tree you were using before and I'll only modify the fork and lower leaves. Unless you are happy with your current tree.
Looks fine now...many thanks for your efforts.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on January 29, 2012, 02:49:52 pm
Glad to help.

Was blaming blender for a second there, which is not a rare occurrence :p
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 29, 2012, 04:53:43 pm
Any luck with the bow?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2012, 04:56:24 pm
Any luck with the bow?
Going to try it now...i'll report back...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2012, 05:09:06 pm
The bow looks fine so far. I'm going to try to add the arrow now...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2012, 11:19:09 pm
The bow is working now, i.e. you can fire arrows with it. They don't hit anything though...

I had some trouble to make the bow work properly, because the arrow wasn't axis aligned and if i changed that, the bow itself didn't fit anymore. I ended up aligning arrow and bow to the z-axis and rotate the bow slightly after loading to match the arrow. It took me some time, but it looks cool now.

Here's a screen shot of the bow:

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and20.png)

and the same scene with an arrow being fired into the sky (that brown bunch of pixels is the arrow... ;)):

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and19.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 30, 2012, 12:36:36 am
It looks good, sorry about the alignment.  I suppose all my messing around threw it off.   If I had it to do over, I would have just put the bones in with it straight up and then tilted slightly afterwards, but you know how that goes.   Hindsight is 20-20.  It was a good experience and I learned a little more about the new Blender.  Not really that new anymore since they changed it at 2.5 and it's at 2.61 now but I'm a little slow catching up with the changes, especially animation.  They have a y-up export option for it now, also, but I didn't see it till after I sent the first one and didn't want to mess you up even more.  I'll have to look at it some time and see how it works.
I didn't know the arrow end would be visible that close up.  I should have put a slot in it, but I suppose that would have made it even harder to align.  I'm a minimizer when it comes to polygons.  I could rework it if you want, but I imagine you are pretty sick of it.
Anyway, it looks good.  Looks like it's going to be a really fun game.  I think you have the right idea with the dungeons, also.  You can put the most variety in that way for the least number of poly's. 
If you need anything else, let me know.  Nothing else should lead to quite that many problems.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 30, 2012, 08:26:48 pm
Ok, i'm a nerd...i spent a few hours to get this to work with good performance:

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and21.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 30, 2012, 08:34:21 pm
I could rework it if you want, but I imagine you are pretty sick of it.
I'm almost happy with the way it is right now...and i'm really thankful to you and everyone else who has contributed so far. All this stuff might not be important for the game play, but it really helps me to create something that, in my view, it worth to add some actual game play features to it. I'm satisfied with the bow, just not with the texturing of the arrow...there is none except for the one that i added by calculating a texture wrap. If i upload the arrow, could you add some better fitting texture coords to it? It's such a shame that quit editing 3d models back in the Amiga days, but i guess one can only do so much...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 30, 2012, 08:43:47 pm
Nice screens Egon! ;) I see, that texture on gate is not ideal. I could not render this object in 3Ds max (everything was gray) and do not know why, house was OK...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 30, 2012, 08:48:47 pm
I see, that texture on gate is not ideal. I could not render this object in 3Ds max (everything was gray) and do not know why, house was OK...
No idea...the texture coords are just like there were on the original model (i managed to open the gates in some basic 3D editor...i was very proud of myself... ;)).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 30, 2012, 09:43:51 pm
I thought i might post a little bit about the origins of this idea, my old Amiga based rpg from 20 years ago (in german...):

The intro picture:
(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/old/intro.png)

the tactical combat system:
(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/old/combat.png)

the dungeon view:
(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/old/dungeon.png)

the city view:
(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/old/city.png)

All this was coded in one large source code file...today, i already have 90 classes (engine not included) without any game play...somewhere, something went wrong along the way... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 30, 2012, 09:57:40 pm
Sure, I can texture it.  I imagine you would want a different wood grain than the bow?  I think I could add that slot kind of parallel to the feathers from the way your picture is if you would want it in there.  I'll be careful not to throw off the position of the arrow so it should work the same as long as the export doesn't change it.  Your old game looked cool.  Hopefully, you can use a lot of those ideas in this one because they can be a lot of work, I know.  If you use your idea of mapping the dungeons, I think it's doable.  I've seen a lot of people, myself included, get stopped by the amount of work in an rpg.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 30, 2012, 10:01:41 pm
Ok...so here's the model i'm currently using: http://jpct.de/download/tmp/arrow.3ds (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/arrow.3ds)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 30, 2012, 10:25:10 pm
Would you want feather and arrowhead texture?
I had to separate them so I can texture the shaft.  I could probably put them both on a 256X256.
Also, is the top feather all right like that, or would you rather it was a thin convex object?  The feathers are just a single triangle right now.  If you have a lot of time, I could bake them all onto a single texture but I've never done it before.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 30, 2012, 10:49:07 pm
I don't care about the head, but having the feather textured in another way would be really cool...all in one texture would be even cooler, as it would prevent the object compiler from making two separate geometry chunks of it...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 31, 2012, 02:09:56 am
It saved the file as a png. 
https://rapidshare.com/files/2029449406/arrow1.zip

Hope it looks ok.  It's just practice for me, so I don't mind doing reworks.  That was my first bake like that, so I'm learning.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on January 31, 2012, 12:54:28 pm
wow ;D I wasn't aware of this thread. it's simply amazing :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 31, 2012, 10:47:31 pm
wow ;D I wasn't aware of this thread. it's simply amazing :)
Thanks. It's not a game ATM though...more like a stress test for the VM... ;)

I've replaced the arrow with the new one (i slightly modified the texture):

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and22.png)

I also improved some engine parts for collision detection and shader management to create less garbage. The game behaves somewhat smoother now albeit the overall frame rate hasn't changed much.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 31, 2012, 11:58:07 pm
Quote
I've replaced the arrow with the new one (i slightly modified the texture):

Yeah, it didn't turn out the way I had set it up.  I moved the control points to better fit the image and it threw it off, and I couldn't think of a way to fix it.    The texture was a real feather.  The nice part is it's pretty easy to see what goes where for making texture changes.  I did learn quite a bit more about texture baking anyway.  Looks good. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 01, 2012, 11:54:12 pm
Just wrote a replacement for my SoundPool based sound system that uses the MediaPlayer instead after reading this: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=17623 (http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=17623)

It works fine so far except that it has some delay between loops, which is annoying but i can't do anything about it. The SoundPool based version will still be default for now...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 05, 2012, 11:25:24 pm
Here's a new video that shows the new features that i've added since the last one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myfOM4n07kc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myfOM4n07kc)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 06, 2012, 02:56:46 am
Man, does that ever look good!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 14, 2012, 10:37:30 pm
Grunt work...i'm currently creating the dungeon elements in code out of single polygons. I decided to keep it really simple for now but to enhance it with parallax mapping. I found some nice free textures with height- and normal maps on http://opengameart.org (http://opengameart.org). This is a screen shot of the door way element (without the door) on the desktop:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_offset.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 15, 2012, 02:29:15 pm
Looks good.  Are you going to do a desktop version, also, then? 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Marlon on February 15, 2012, 04:23:02 pm
I thought i might post a little bit about the origins of this idea, my old Amiga based rpg from 20 years ago (in german...):

...

All this was coded in one large source code file...today, i already have 90 classes (engine not included) without any game play...somewhere, something went wrong along the way... ;)

Wow, this and the new images look really great!!!  :)
And yeah I know exactly what you are saying. 15 Years ago I also coded chaotic "Spaghetticode" while doing my first games;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 15, 2012, 08:30:45 pm
Looks good.  Are you going to do a desktop version, also, then?
Yes and no. I have a desktop version with a limited feature set (no sound...) to ease content creation. The desktop version mainly exists to place the entities and serialize 3d objects and beans for the Android version. I'm not going to release a desktop version to the public.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 17, 2012, 11:01:32 pm
I need a wall torch...something like this: http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/rsrc/Two/ExampleMapsAdvLighting/wavering_torch.jpg (http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/rsrc/Two/ExampleMapsAdvLighting/wavering_torch.jpg) but without the fire effect (i'll use a simple particle effect to do this). Any takers?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 17, 2012, 11:10:42 pm
Still working on the dungeon on the desktop. Creating a basic dungeon based on an ASCII map seems to work now. I'm playing around with lighting based on offset mapping combined with gouraud shading and distance fogging. Using some crazy colored light sources, it looks like this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun1.jpg)

...that's also why i need that torch model (see the post above this one...)...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 18, 2012, 03:53:30 am
I need a wall torch...something like this: http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/rsrc/Two/ExampleMapsAdvLighting/wavering_torch.jpg (http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/rsrc/Two/ExampleMapsAdvLighting/wavering_torch.jpg) but without the fire effect (i'll use a simple particle effect to do this). Any takers?

I love this collaborative stuff! Sure, I'll do you a wall torch - actually, if I do a torch and a separate bracket maybe the player could grab the torch and use it? That'd be cool! Let me know either way, I can get it done by tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 18, 2012, 04:10:53 am
Looks like I got beat to it.  Dungeon is looking good.  The colors might be a little much, depending on the game style.  I'm sure you'll need more help populating the dungeons with artifacts and monsters eventually.   I think it might look a little nicer if the floor and ceiling were using larger stones, of course, I'm sure you're working out the mapping right now, which is looking right on.   
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 18, 2012, 09:57:34 am
Thanks for the suggestion...i'll try how it looks with a different floor/ceiling. Luckily, floor and ceiling are separate tiles anyway, so that's a an easy change. The lighting is just for testing...it's not going to look like this.

About the torch: The player doesn't have to be able to grab the torch. I consider stuff like torches, limited arrows and food as unnecessary because they only add complexity for no real gain. However, having the option to remove the torch from the bracket would be nice... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 18, 2012, 07:56:11 pm
OK, my first go at the torch is here (http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/torch.zip). 192 polys all in - is that too many? I can reduce that to maybe 100 - it depends on how close you want to look at it.
I used the bow as a guide to size so the scale should be approximately right.
Was this the sort of thing you wanted?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 18, 2012, 09:00:16 pm
Yes...it looks cool. I'll try to add it to the dungeon within the next days. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 18, 2012, 10:20:34 pm
I've changed floor/ceiling to another texture and got rid of the LSD colors...any better now?

Edit: Replaced the image with one that already uses the torch model....but no particle effects yet.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun2.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on February 18, 2012, 10:35:49 pm
better IMHO
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 19, 2012, 08:25:59 am
I like it better also.  The two textures and different size stones give it a more interesting look.  Another thing you might think about is pillars and joists in large areas.  That's just a suggestion as it looks fine.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on February 19, 2012, 08:59:05 am
I'm curious about the performance of this in the phone :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on February 19, 2012, 12:51:35 pm
The ground and ceiling is a bit too golden and bright for my tastes but definitely better than before.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 19, 2012, 05:16:36 pm
Yes...it looks cool. I'll try to add it to the dungeon within the next days. Many thanks.
NP, it was fun making it - I don't mind a little light work now and again!  ;D
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 19, 2012, 10:32:56 pm
I'm curious about the performance of this in the phone :)
Me too. I expect something around 20-25fps on the Nexus S.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 20, 2012, 09:25:34 pm
The torch is working fine on the desktop. The next thing is to merge all this with the terrain rendering and port it to the phone to see if its feasible.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun3.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 20, 2012, 09:55:39 pm
Looking very nice! Do you think I should flatten the top of the torch though? It'd make the flames more visible and save a few polys...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 20, 2012, 10:01:43 pm
I like it the way it is. The flames look better in motion anyway (just like the smoke...you can barely see it in screen shots).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 21, 2012, 04:20:48 am
Nice texturing on the torch.  Looks great.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 25, 2012, 11:26:49 pm
Got it working on the phone. The performance is somewhere around 30-40 fps, which is better than i expected. I tweaked the shader a little bit, because it was doing calculations in the fragment shader that could be done in the vertex shader as well.

In game, i can now enter dungeons and exit them again to the wilderness. But for now, it doesn't matter which entrance i take, i'll always end up in the same dungeon... ;)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun4.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 26, 2012, 02:55:23 am
That does look proper! I think you need some litter though, bones or dirt or something... It looks a bit 'clean'.
If you gave me the floor and wall textures I could try to do you a low-poly drift of dirt to help break up the line where the walls meet the floor? A pile of dirt against the wall under the torch would help to mask out that harsh join.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on February 26, 2012, 12:23:22 pm
Performance is really good, I expected much less frames :) and looking of dungeon is very, very nice ;) Try this texture (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/wood1.jpg) for bow, it could look better IMHO and if fireside send me bow in another file format (something is wrong in importing to 3Ds max) I will look at UVs and merge skin and wood1 textures in to one.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 26, 2012, 02:55:05 pm
@Hrolf: Here you go: http://jpct.de/download/tmp/dungeon_textures.7z (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/dungeon_textures.7z)

@Thomas.: I've replaced the texture. It looks better, but it loses some detail because i'm only using 64*64 for the bow.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 26, 2012, 02:56:54 pm
Performance is really good, I expected much less frames :)
Me too, especially because it's all tile-based, i.e. there's not one large dungeon object but the whole things is created out of basic building blocks at runtime.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on February 26, 2012, 03:22:58 pm
@Thomas.: I've replaced the texture. It looks better, but it loses some detail because i'm only using 64*64 for the bow.

I need model for better texture. Model that is in this thread looks very bad when I open it in the 3Ds max...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 26, 2012, 09:21:31 pm
What did you want it in?  The hand and the model are together, sort of, but separate objects in Blender.  I think it would look a little better if the handle were textured a little different from the bow, but it looks all right to me to be honest.  Plus there are frames, so it's more than one object.  I don't know how that works, though. I can't remember which frames I sent, so it might end up a little different.  The start frame would be the same.  I think there will be plenty of modeling and texturing when he puts objects in the dungeon.  He might want to replace the bow for a final presentation, but it is a telephone game and vertices need to be kept low.  You're kind of giving me a complex here.  I don't think it's too bad.  I'm not the best at texturing, though.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 27, 2012, 03:55:01 am
OK, here's what I've got for the dirt pile in the editor;
(http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/edit.jpg)
and here's the model (http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/dirt_pile.zip) (26 polys).

I haven't actually tried it in jPCT - will the transparency be a problem? I tried to make it as re-usable as possible for different scales or wall/floor combos.
Also there's more than half of the dirt.png texture unused. I wondered about some ceiling stuff to use it up - tree roots maybe? Cobwebs?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 27, 2012, 10:51:38 am
Cobwebs might look cool. I could animate them with a simple vertex shader. I would like try the dirt pile tomorrow...but i can't unzip it. I tried three different zip-programs, but none of them can unzip that file. I download the file two times, same result.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 27, 2012, 05:49:23 pm
Cobwebs might look cool. I could animate them with a simple vertex shader. I would like try the dirt pile tomorrow...but i can't unzip it. I tried three different zip-programs, but none of them can unzip that file. I download the file two times, same result.
Unzips here ok.. NM, try this one (http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/dirt_pile.7z).
I'll have a play with cobwebs.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 28, 2012, 11:29:03 pm
I've added the dirt pile. I had a lot of trouble with the texture, but that wasn't your fault. For some reason, the Android SDK refused to load the png properly... ???

Anyway, it looks like this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun5.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 29, 2012, 12:51:33 am
It looks really nice.  About the only thing that stands out a little is the very straight line between floor and wall and ceiling and wall.  Don't know if it's possible, but a bevel on the top and bottom of the wall would help I think, or possibly leave a slight crack.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on February 29, 2012, 01:40:04 am
That's nice!
I agree with fireside about the floor/wall/ceiling joins though - too sharp - maybe a simple 4 poly 'corner shadow' would help?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 29, 2012, 08:47:21 pm
Adding some bevel or decoration into the corners has the problem that it has to be limited to the tile, i.e. i can't really extends it into another tile so that the bevels match where they hit without adding much complexity to the dungeon generator code. I though about adding some wooden girder which is limited to the tile at least onto the ceiling, but i'm not if that a) looks good and b) makes any sense...i'm open to suggestions though... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 01, 2012, 03:27:01 am
They're going to be playing it on a telephone and we're looking at a lot larger screen.  It looks really good.  You could darken the ceiling and floor texture a little, but I like to be able to see what I'm doing even in dungeons. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 01, 2012, 06:20:48 pm
Any video of news? :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 01, 2012, 11:17:39 pm
Because nobody commented on the idea and i couldn't find a good screen shot/image illustrating it, i tried to draw them into a screen shot by hand...like so:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun_girders.jpg)

For simplicity, i would add them only in hallways, i.e. not in larger rooms and not in junctions or corners. What do you think...and does anybody have a nicely textured model that i could use? Maybe using a few more polygons than just a box...?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 01, 2012, 11:30:27 pm
I have no fantasy for this, but if you send to me some screenshot, where is what you want, I send you model of this with texture ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on March 02, 2012, 02:38:37 am
Hmm... Roof beams aren't that dungeon-like!
I'm all over the place just now (god damn PHP!) but give me a day or two and I'll try to do a 'corner softener' which should work anywhere...
I haven't forgotten the cobwebs either!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 02, 2012, 04:29:24 am
I think beams might add some variety.  You'll probably want to experiment with different textures and other things to add variety to the dungeons, for instance rock or dirt walls that aren't cut.  Posts and beams would probably look good with dirt walls. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on March 02, 2012, 08:16:09 am
I've never been in a dungeon so I can't comment on those beams. However, you could change the texture of the roof to a dark wooden plank texture to blend the wall texture in a bit better. And perhaps add injected 'shadow' textures on the floor where it runs along the wall edge so the contrast between the wall edge and floor are closer.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 02, 2012, 04:31:53 pm
Hmm... Roof beams aren't that dungeon-like!
I'm all over the place just now (god damn PHP!) but give me a day or two and I'll try to do a 'corner softener' which should work anywhere...
I haven't forgotten the cobwebs either!
Depends on the dungeon, i think. They don't have to look like wood...they could also be made of stone. I don't see, why that shouldn't fit. At least it's an option to add some variety. Not all dungeons will look the same anyway.

I'm very interested in that corner softener...albeit i'm not 100% sure why everyone see this hard transition as a problem. Just look around in the room in which you are now...i bet the transitions between walls and floors are pretty hard, aren't they?... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on March 02, 2012, 04:33:07 pm
(http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/cobwebs.jpg)
I've played truant to have some fun instead! Besides the cobwebs I've made an L-shaped shadow to sit in the corners between the tiles and the walls/ceilings. The shadows look a bit dark here but the idea was to use setTransparency() to get them looking right. Maybe that cobweb texture could be improved also...
Models are here (http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/cobwebs.7z).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 02, 2012, 10:41:31 pm
Added both things, the cobwebs and the faked SSAO shadows. It looks like this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun6.png)

The cobwebs are animated using a simple vertex shader, but it would look better if the texturing would be reversed, i.e. if the end of the web would be where the two polygons of the plane meet.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on March 03, 2012, 12:13:29 am
looks very nice. this game started to look like a desktop game :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on March 03, 2012, 01:21:30 am
Oo! It's starting to look like Skyrim! That cobweb texture is way too loose though - it looks out of scale. I can easily fix the poly/tex thing for animation - should I add a few more polys to it for the animation or is 2 polys OK? Can anyone find a better texture? @Fireside: fancy a go? I'm no artist!
I do think that the corner shadows help to take away that pixelated line, but as fireside says, darkening the edges (or all) of the floor texture would do the same job without the need for those extra transparent polys.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 03, 2012, 01:31:31 am
I like the corner shadow and the cobweb.  Looks really good. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 03, 2012, 02:59:37 am
I looked at the cobweb.  I can barely see it in gimp so I don't think I could do any better.  I did rotate the vertex points, I think the way Egon was saying:
https://rapidshare.com/files/996541640/cobweb.obj
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 03, 2012, 09:55:56 am
And what this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/cobweb.zip)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 03, 2012, 09:38:30 pm
I looked at the cobweb.  I can barely see it in gimp so I don't think I could do any better.  I did rotate the vertex points, I think the way Egon was saying:
https://rapidshare.com/files/996541640/cobweb.obj
No, that's not what i meant...what i rather meant is this...this is how the model is done right now (think of the wall being attached on the right side of the web):

Code: [Select]
***********
|--------|*
| \      |*
|  \     |*
|   \    |*
|    \   |*
|     \  |*
|      \ |*
|--------|*

...and what i want is this:

Code: [Select]
***********
|--------|*
|      / |*
|     /  |*
|    /   |*
|   /    |*
|  /     |*
| /      |*
|--------|*
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 03, 2012, 09:42:23 pm
And what this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/cobweb.zip)?
This is a great example of the OBJ-format being fucked up beyond believe...this file uses negative vertex indices in the triangle definition list. I've no idea what to make from that and so the import fails. However, i've converted it in another program (which could handle these negative indices)...i like the model, but i can't use it because it doesn't play well with the way i'm using to animate the mesh in the shader.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 03, 2012, 10:24:45 pm
OK, I took the two on the left, moved them to the right and moved the vertex's back over the web.  I think that's the equivalent, as long as I don't have right and left mixed up with up and down.  I can't actually see it on the model.  It's just black, but I can see the vertices on the texture. 
https://rapidshare.com/files/345413650/cobweb.obj
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 03, 2012, 10:35:44 pm
Yes, thank you. That's what i meant. Animation looks better now.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 03, 2012, 11:02:38 pm
I've re-done the cobweb-texture. It now looks like this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun7.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 04, 2012, 12:03:50 am
That does look a little better.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on March 04, 2012, 06:23:59 am
Much better scale - that's what I wanted! I'd knock a few strands out to make it look more old and ragged though, it's a bit too 'perfect' as it is... ...or am I just being a perfectionist?!  ;D
Thinking about it, it's not right! What are those radial strands attached to? It should look more like this: (http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/small-cobweb.jpg) (but better).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 04, 2012, 06:36:59 am
Quote
What are those radial strands attached to?

Yeah, I actually thought the same thing but it looked so nice, I didn't mention it.  Yours would be more realistic, but, everything doesn't have to be perfectly realistic either.  It could be a very industrious spider that crossed to the other side and anchored it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 04, 2012, 08:43:45 pm
Much better scale - that's what I wanted! I'd knock a few strands out to make it look more old and ragged though, it's a bit too 'perfect' as it is... ...or am I just being a perfectionist?!  ;D
Thinking about it, it's not right! What are those radial strands attached to? It should look more like this: (http://www.hayles.demon.co.uk/tempPix/small-cobweb.jpg) (but better).
You are right...but it was the one that i could find for this purpose...i'll look again or maybe draw my own. It can't be that hard...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 04, 2012, 09:32:26 pm
Another try:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun8.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on March 05, 2012, 01:40:28 am
Sweet!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 05, 2012, 09:26:19 pm
Anybody interested in creating a low polygon variant of this: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/504610 (http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/504610)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 05, 2012, 10:59:00 pm
I'll look at it tomorrow...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 05, 2012, 11:37:49 pm
Is it OK, or want you more details?

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/model2.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 05, 2012, 11:41:46 pm
No, it's great the way it is.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 05, 2012, 11:43:09 pm
...but the final texture should contain a lock or something similar...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 05, 2012, 11:49:22 pm
Do you want "lock" as is in the image from you, or classics lock for key?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 06, 2012, 07:00:20 am
The classic way makes more sense IMHO.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 06, 2012, 12:45:58 pm
I sent to you the door model through PM
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 06, 2012, 08:55:24 pm
I sent to you the door model through PM
Woohooo...another one in the "negative vertex indices"-series...what exporter creates this kind of crazy stuff? I've never encountered this and i've seen a lot of silliness in OBJ-files...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 06, 2012, 09:06:22 pm
zip also contains 3ds file (and original max file from 3ds max) ;) maybe I somewhere something bad chosen... I look is there something what does negative vertex indices...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 06, 2012, 09:17:28 pm
I updated zip, I hope that is OK, now ;)
edit: Profile for exporting OBJ for Maya does negative indices
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 06, 2012, 09:22:00 pm
I updated zip, I hope that is OK, now  ;)
Don't worry...i was using the 3ds version instead. I'm just interested in what that comes from!? Negative vertex indices don't make much sense at first glance, but there has to be a way to deal with them because DeepExploration loads these files without a problem.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on March 06, 2012, 09:22:57 pm
IIRC negative vertex indices are used to allow grouping in obj files. The indices refer back up the vertex list at that point in the file.

Code: [Select]
v  0 0 0
v  1 0 0
v  1 1 0

g mesh1
f -3// -2// -1//

v  0 0 1
v  1 0 1
v  1 1 1

g mesh2
f -3// -2// -1//

is the same as;

Code: [Select]
v  0 0 0
v  1 0 0
v  1 1 0

g mesh1
f 1// 2// 3//

v  0 0 1
v  1 0 1
v  1 1 1

g mesh2
f 4// 5// 6//


Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 06, 2012, 09:55:46 pm
...sooo...positive values are absolute for the whole file regardless of groups (i knew that, but i never understood why...). Then they discovered that their groups made no sense at all when doing this and introduced negative indices, which are relative inside the group but starting at the end of each group!?

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/facepalm.jpg)


...i've never seen this used until recently. I resist to support this ATM... >:(
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 06, 2012, 11:17:31 pm
I sent to you the door model through PM
And this is how it looks like. I had to darken the texture somewhat and create a normal- and a height map for it. ATM, i can't open the door... ;)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun9.png)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun10.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 06, 2012, 11:36:49 pm
What color depth and resolutions are you using for this texture? But it looks nice :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 06, 2012, 11:58:52 pm
It looks good, but just a little funny without a door handle.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on March 07, 2012, 01:26:56 am
...i've never seen this used until recently. I resist to support this ATM... >:(
I agree - bad OBJ exporter. I'm having trouble thinking where these negative indices would actually be useful. Maybe just a loader warning?

Anyway, for a low-poly model that door looks pretty good!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 07, 2012, 02:46:52 pm
What color depth and resolutions are you using for this texture? But it looks nice :)
The texture is 256*256 (with 128*128 for normal- and height map), the color depth is 16bit (converted by jPCT-AE...i'm using 16bit textures throughout the game (...mostly)).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 07, 2012, 03:41:54 pm
But it's look like 256 colors... I resized texture in PC and updated ZIP, if not better, I don't know where is problem...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 07, 2012, 10:33:58 pm
But it's look like 256 colors... I resized texture in PC and updated ZIP, if not better, I don't know where is problem...
There's no actual problem...i had to darken the texture, which cuts the range anyway. Then it is converted into 5/5/5/1 color format and rendered into a 16bit framebuffer. The shader also scales the colors in addition and given the subtle color differences in the brown parts, you finally get what you've asked for. I could try to use ETC1 texture compression instead, which uses the same memory as 16bit...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 07, 2012, 10:40:02 pm
This is how it looks with ETC1 compression instead:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun11.png)

You can cleary spot the compression artifacts...not sure if this is better albeit it offers a little more variety in the colors.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 07, 2012, 11:36:37 pm
I see... but in 192th reply, second screen it looks good :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 27, 2012, 12:49:06 pm
Any news? :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 27, 2012, 12:57:09 pm
No, i was busy with the BlackBerry port and some other stuff. I hope to continue working on it soon.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: zandric on April 09, 2012, 07:28:01 am
Hey. I saw this and thought I'd ask. Is there any chance of a source release even in its current state? I think that would help a lot of people in understanding shaders a bit more,as well as many other things.
How'd you do the terrain generation? Did you simply deform a plane or model it and load that in?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 20, 2012, 10:16:22 pm
I somehow missed the post above...sorry. Releasing the sources ATM isn't very helpful, i think. They simply change too often. But if somebody has some questions about how specific things are done, i'll gladly explain it and post some code too, if that helps. The terrain has been done in Terragen and reduced in vertex count by using VIZup (see the jPCT wiki for more information).

Anyway, i just wanted to mention that the project isn't dead. I just had a lot of different things to do including finishing Mass Effect 3, Legend of Grimrock and Risen 2... ;) Recently, i replaced the terrain with the one that i'm going to use in the actual game. Unlike the former one, the level borders are not a flat surface anymore but some "mountains" (more like hills, but anyway) that you won't be able to climb (ATM, you are...). Yesterday, i placed my first city where it belongs...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and23.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on May 20, 2012, 10:19:31 pm
very cool  :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on May 21, 2012, 03:20:56 am
Nice! I've missed this.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 21, 2012, 12:30:16 pm
Nice, I like the terrain better.  Glad you are still working on it. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 21, 2012, 10:25:22 pm
Nice, I like the terrain better.
It actually the same texture as before. I just use a much more blurred texture splatting texture to mix the layers so that there's more variation in the looks...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 24, 2012, 10:39:20 pm
I started to draw a simple map to see where to put which location like towns, huts...stuff like that. The "world" is roughly 90,000m2 in size (dungeons excluded). That sounds more than it actually is, but it has to be enough. It'll be hard enough to fill this world with content anyway.

Is anybody here still willing to do some content creation? I need some additional stuff like a tower, a hut, gravestones, some castle remains, a kind of church or monestry (open...so that the player can enter it)...I searched the web and there's great stuff on http://opengameart.org/ (http://opengameart.org/), but either the license doesn't fit or texture coordinates are missing or...

I also added some plants. They are more seldom than trees or bushes but you can collect them (or better: you'll be able too...it isn't implemented yet) and eat them or create potions from them or whatever comes to mind.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and24.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 24, 2012, 11:31:00 pm
I better wait to see who else decides what, but I think it would be easy to add textures to these models on that site you linked:

gravestones
http://opengameart.org/content/cemetery
Inscriptions might be a problem because they should probably be different, or maybe illegible.

I'm not really the best at texturing.  I'll do it if someone else doesn't.  I need the practice, surely.

This tower maybe could use a little work but also needs texture:
http://opengameart.org/content/medieval-tower

Might need to build the hut, didn't see anything.

One ruin here that needs a texture:
http://opengameart.org/content/ruins-0

could probably add some wall sections easily



Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on May 25, 2012, 02:36:37 am
I'm not really the best at texturing.  I'll do it if someone else doesn't.  I need the practice, surely.
Nice models, but hey, you need to bite the bullet and texture them up!
I tend to go the other way round and build the model from the texture, ie create a unit-sized plane, texture it with the object skin, then cut out the bit I'm working on (wall, door, window &c) and stitch it into the model. This way I can build models from pre-textured pieces where the UVs all match up.
It's just a pity I'm so bad at it!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 25, 2012, 04:36:10 am
All right.  I'll start with the graveyard models, then.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 25, 2012, 05:13:50 am
Here's the cross with a simple texture.  I could make it more complicated, but then it wouldn't work with the other items.
https://rapidshare.com/files/586690007/cross.zip

If that will do let me know and I'll do the others.  If you want something more individual I can look around for a design or something.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 25, 2012, 05:49:12 pm
The quality of the texturing is fine IMHO. However, i don't think that a cross is a good fit for a fantasy RPG, because it's a christian symbol (at least when used on a grave yard) and people in a fantasy world usually aren't christians... ;)

But i'll happily use any other kind of grave stone.... :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 25, 2012, 11:49:19 pm
OK.
Take a look at the links I left above and see if they would work for you.  I think the others on that link are a headstone, coffin etc.  I'll put that same texture on them if it works out.  It's not seamless so that might be a problem and I'll have to fix it or find another.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 26, 2012, 12:04:54 am
The others are all great.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 26, 2012, 12:38:43 am
OK, here's first tombstone.  I didn't upload the texture because it's the same as the cross.
https://rapidshare.com/files/4214211397/tombstone1.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 26, 2012, 01:17:21 am
Here's tombstone2
https://rapidshare.com/files/468357224/tombstone2.zip

and tombstone3
https://rapidshare.com/files/1519184142/tombstone3.zip

crypt
https://rapidshare.com/files/785724149/crypt.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 27, 2012, 06:56:19 pm
Ruined Gate
Hopefully this one worked out.  It looks all right in Blender using a seamless texture and expanded uv dimensions.
https://rapidshare.com/files/1204423320/ruinedGate.zip

If it worked out, I'll try to make some other walls etc to go with it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 28, 2012, 09:09:43 pm
Everything looks great so far in the viewer (i.e. DeepExploration). I hope to add them into the game this week and see how they look. But i'm pretty confident...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 29, 2012, 09:53:01 pm
Added the ruin model and it looks cool IMHO. The texturing might not be perfect at some parts, but i really don't care. It's a ruin after all...it's ok, if it has some cracks... ;)

Here it is, located on a small hill:
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and25.png)


and when viewed from the hill's top:
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and26.png)

I also made the plants pickable and changed the scale of the rock texture, so that texture tiling on rocky parts is less obvious. Next thing to add will be the grave yard...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 29, 2012, 10:28:15 pm
There's one seam on the front I'm not stuck on.  I'm going to do some reading and give it another try before I give up.  The expanded dimensions worked out, so that's good. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 29, 2012, 10:39:02 pm
It looks nice :) you can add some simple boxes and boards, that it was not so empty... how is it do multi texturing? is it control by engine? how? if it is not secret :)

edit: will be any new video?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 29, 2012, 11:03:54 pm
how is it do multi texturing? is it control by engine? how? if it is not secret :)
It's controlled by a shader. I'm using 4 texture stages for the terrain. 3 contain the gras, the rocks and the dirt textures. The forth one contains the blending information between those three plus a fifth one that simply cuts the dirt texture's brightness in half and is used for the paths and spots like the ground beneath the ruin.

edit: will be any new video?
Yes. But i'll postpone it until i have the basic map elements in place to show them all in one video.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 29, 2012, 11:23:58 pm
Is it the fastest way how it can be done? I'll try to write something...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 29, 2012, 11:34:41 pm
It depends...Quake-level multi-texturing doesn't need to do it that way. You can simply use the built-in stuff for that. But here, you can use any paint application to virtually paint your ground.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 30, 2012, 01:42:08 am
Here's another one.  I can't see any seams in Blender that jump out at me.
https://rapidshare.com/files/1059317746/ruinedGate2.3ds
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 30, 2012, 11:06:45 pm
Texturing is better on that one...some cracks are still visible, but that's actually just realistic...nobody bends a stone to make the transition from a wall to a tower seamless... ;)

Anyway, i started working on the graveyard...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and27.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 30, 2012, 11:38:00 pm
Looks nice.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 31, 2012, 04:37:28 pm
Couple more wall ruins to go with the gate:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3058910473/ruins1.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 31, 2012, 09:24:15 pm
Couple more wall ruins to go with the gate:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3058910473/ruins1.zip
Nice, thanx. I'm going to place this at some locations in the map. It's good for hiding treasures and such behind it. Speaking of treasures...anybody here has a treasure chest lying around (with animated lid... ;))?

Edit: A screen shot of the new ruin model
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and28.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on June 01, 2012, 02:50:26 am
Looks nice, but the arrow is below the hand now.  It used to be above.  I saw one public domain chest at open game art without a texture.  I can add one and animate it, unless someone else has one or wants to texture it or whatever.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 01, 2012, 08:00:16 am
Looks nice, but the arrow is below the hand now.  It used to be above.
Thanks for mentioning that...i haven't noticed it yet. It might have something to do with the fact that the rotation pivot will be loaded from serialized files now...i'll look into it...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 01, 2012, 03:42:14 pm
Do you want this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure.zip) with texture similar to this (http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000578775/polls_istockphoto_2939337_treasure_chest_2611_247471_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 01, 2012, 06:16:07 pm
Do you want this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure.zip) with texture similar to this (http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000578775/polls_istockphoto_2939337_treasure_chest_2611_247471_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg)?
Yes, something like that. Do you think that a three or four frame keyframe animation would look good enough for an opening/closing sequence? I could of course rotate the lid as a single object, the using keyframes would be easier...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on June 01, 2012, 06:24:28 pm
I guess I'll wait to see how you work that out then.  Personally, I think actually having treasure in the chest would limit the game a little.  If it was basically empty, you could either put things in there, or show a 2d table showing what was in it when it opened.  Then again, if you make the game too complicated, it's a lot harder to finish.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 01, 2012, 06:28:37 pm
I don't know how exactly working animations, I thought that was created just two keys, but probably 40? So, you want one object with animated lid... will be fine, if I create 3 keys after 40 degrees?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 01, 2012, 06:39:33 pm
If it was basically empty, ... or show a 2d table showing what was in it when it opened.
That's what i had in mind. I didn't want to fill it with physical stuff. Just show its content in an inventory like view.

Quote
Then again, if you make the game too complicated, it's a lot harder to finish.
Very true... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 01, 2012, 06:41:00 pm
So, you want one object with animated lid... will be fine, if I create 3 keys after 40 degrees?
I don't want to be able to open it completely. Something like 50-60 degrees should be sufficient. That might be doable with 3 or 4 keyframes IMHO.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 01, 2012, 09:39:57 pm
Here is model with texture and animation, let me know if is fine :)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure.zip (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure.zip)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 02, 2012, 08:37:20 pm
I'll give it a try once i've finished Max Payne 3... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 02, 2012, 09:02:44 pm
OMG :D Did you ever play Singularity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50O3BxaQ-co)? it's fantastic and atmospheric game :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 05, 2012, 10:52:06 pm
It took me some time to figure out how to render (animated!) grass patches without bringing either the VM or the memory down...works fine now:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and29.png)

...the detail level can be adjusted...a twice as fast phone with a twice as fast VM, and this might be doable:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and30.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 05, 2012, 11:21:56 pm
vide, video, video and don't forget to dungeon :)
edit: do you mean, that final version will be playable on Galaxy S? now 24fps with skybox in large part of screen...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 05, 2012, 11:39:09 pm
edit: do you mean, that final version will be playable on Galaxy S? now 24fps with skybox on large part of screen...
At least that's my goal to make it somewhat playable on hardware of that class. Regarding the Galaxy S, it might become a problem that it's stuck at 2.3.x (unless you root it...) and i think i'll run into memory problems with the VM of that Android version once i start to add animated characters and actual game play. But we'll see...it's a long way to go anyway. When this is done, we'll be a few generations ahead from now and the Galaxy S will only be dimly remembered.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Hrolf on June 06, 2012, 12:30:23 am
More grass! More trees! Yaay!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 11, 2012, 08:08:10 pm
Here is model with texture and animation, let me know if is fine :)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure.zip (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure.zip)
It looks very nice...but how i'm supposed to animate it? I can't load the max-version and the obj as well as the 3ds contain only one object...???
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 11, 2012, 08:54:03 pm
It's mesh animation, probably not supported by OBJ and 3DS... I divided animation to 3 objects, so now it should be ok...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure_anim.zip (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure_anim.zip)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 11, 2012, 11:44:07 pm
Thanks, i'll give it a try. Here's a new video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olxPQ6zjNEA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olxPQ6zjNEA)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 11, 2012, 11:56:03 pm
catacombs looks really nice :) ... it seems to be environment code completed? so now some enemies, catacombs and you can release some demo :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on June 12, 2012, 03:08:50 am
It's coming along nicely. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 12, 2012, 08:55:44 pm
... it seems to be environment code completed? so now some enemies, catacombs and you can release some demo :)
Sure...maybe tomorrow before breakfast... ::)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 12, 2012, 09:00:31 pm
It's mesh animation, probably not supported by OBJ and 3DS... I divided animation to 3 objects, so now it should be ok...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure_anim.zip (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure_anim.zip)
Why does these 3ds-files have 199 vertices each while the obj-file in the last version had only 50 (which sounds more reasonable to me...)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 12, 2012, 09:02:38 pm
I know, I'm working on my game two years and I have nothing... what I want to say is good work, we look forward to playable demo :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 12, 2012, 09:13:08 pm
Why does these 3ds-files have 199 vertices each while the obj-file in the last version had only 50 (which sounds more reasonable to me...)?

Probably 3DS format support kind of animation what I used... I just save object again but to OBJ and seems to be fine...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/treasure.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 12, 2012, 10:19:52 pm
Thank you. I tried the animation in a quick-and-dirty desktop application and it looks fine.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 14, 2012, 09:27:49 pm
The treasure chest is in...kind of...ATM, you can open it. The animation plays, but nothing else happens and you can't close it either (albeit the code is in...i was just too lazy to call it).

Here's the treasure hidden in the ruins... ;)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and31.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on June 14, 2012, 09:59:48 pm
looks like an almost completed game more and more..
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 14, 2012, 10:03:13 pm
Yeah...except it doesn't contain any game play elements like combat, quests, crafting, story... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on June 14, 2012, 10:04:47 pm
that is what almost means I supose :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 14, 2012, 10:13:20 pm
that is what almost means I supose :)
I'm doing my very best... ;) I've already read some stuff that might be helpful, like

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Guide-Video-Writing-Design/dp/158065066X (http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Guide-Video-Writing-Design/dp/158065066X) - to learn how to tell a story that doesn't suck
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Design-Workshop-Second-Edition/dp/0240809742 (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Design-Workshop-Second-Edition/dp/0240809742) - to learn how to design a game that doesn't suck

and i'm currently reading

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Desktops-History-Computer-Role-playing/dp/1568814119 (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Desktops-History-Computer-Role-playing/dp/1568814119) -  for inspiration
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on June 14, 2012, 10:18:05 pm
sounds interesting :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 15, 2012, 12:14:52 am
sounds interesting :)
It really is. Too bad that nobody tells you how to make proper controls for these damn touch screen devices...at least Game Design Workshop mentions that it's difficult... ;) After adding the treasure chest, i spend the whole evening to improve the movement controls. I either ended up with something too fussy or something too unresponsive. I now have something that starts fussy but adds some damping the longer you move...works quite well so far. My wish is that, even if the game itself might suck in the end (i hope not...), the controls are the best that at least i could come up with. I want to make a game with controls in a way that i want them to be. Because the controls are the main problem that drives me away from playing fps like games on mobile devices. Then again, i never understood why gamepads replaced joysticks, so i might not be the right person to ask...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on June 15, 2012, 03:56:12 pm
well, for FPS like games either touch screen or joystick or gamepad is not good enough IMHO. none can beat keyboard + mouse combination ;)

in general, I agree that controls suck for these mobile devices. I'm imagining two pieceses of hardware with some kind of joystick and buttons on top of them. these two piece will plug into left and right parts of phone and make it look like a PSP.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 23, 2012, 11:25:42 pm
Thanks to Marlon, i now have a basic NPC model that can walk and stand. These guys are supposed to be used mainly as town people, but because my current game logic doesn't allow them to be located in towns (because ATM, towns are a no-go area for all NPCs by design), i let him walk around in the wilderness for now...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and32.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 25, 2012, 11:25:22 pm
He is now save inside the town walls...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and33.png)

He's still a bit confused and follows his path for no apparent reason or just idles around... ;)

I've also improved processing of trees and bushes, getting up to 25% more fps when moving around in the wilderness.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 26, 2012, 12:02:03 am
Nice, I have some free time, so you can tell me, which object do you want ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 26, 2012, 10:41:39 am
If you are ambitious...i'm still looking for a kind of simple church or monastery building. One that, in comparision to the houses, is open and can be entered by the player. It's hard to find an example of what i mean...like a building with some nice windows and one large room...maybe with some pillars and an altar, without pews. Doors can be open and static.

Or, if that's too much to ask for, the model of a wooden hut would be nice too.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 26, 2012, 10:58:18 am
Ok I'll do it, church, monastery building, wooden hut, doesn't matter, but I really need some image of what you want, ideally also some image of inside... and will not mind if this model will used also in my game (if will be useful for me)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 26, 2012, 11:28:17 am
The hut should be similar to this one:

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/49947/chata2.jpg (http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/49947/chata2.jpg)

The church/monestrary building can be simple from the outside...something like this:

http://www.weddingvenues.com/images/listing_photos/5950_Lady-Margarets-Medieval-Hall.jpg (http://www.weddingvenues.com/images/listing_photos/5950_Lady-Margarets-Medieval-Hall.jpg)

And the inside somehow like this...but less high and without the wooden root beams and stuff. "Just" some pillars and an altar at the end.

http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/4/56/25654/v0_master.jpg (http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/4/56/25654/v0_master.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on June 27, 2012, 02:13:49 pm
Character looks pretty good.  You might could change the texture a little to get different looks.  Different hair color, clothes, etc.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 29, 2012, 10:47:44 pm
Sorry for delay, I bought SGS3 and testing and testing...extremely power phone, DOF, bloom and much more without any problem, look at nova 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gq_ZU9p5Nk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL2A5F9426CDC092EE) :) ... Here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/monestrary.3DS) is monestrary and say me what you want to change.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 30, 2012, 10:24:56 pm
Ok, here are my thoughts on this model:


BTW: I hope to work on the normals import next week.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on July 02, 2012, 05:55:11 pm
Oh, monestrary will probably monastery :) ... I really need some image, this (http://www.filigallery.com/d/135146-2/Cetinje+Monastery+-+Montenegro-5.JPG) looks nice and I estimate about 600-700 triangles, do you want it? If yes, no problem. If no, I'll can try to do it by your wish in previous post.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 02, 2012, 08:05:59 pm
That would do too, but without the christian symbolism.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on July 03, 2012, 12:32:30 am
Here is it. Any other changes? Do you want the door like one separate object (so you can control open/close in game) or want you merge objects to just one? Windows will be colored, maybe transparent plane inside windows with disable backface culling?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/monastery.3ds (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26148874/monastery.3ds)

and thanks for normals, I'll try it tomorrow
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 03, 2012, 11:13:24 pm
Here is it. Any other changes? Do you want the door like one separate object (so you can control open/close in game) or want you merge objects to just one? Windows will be colored, maybe transparent plane inside windows with disable backface culling?
Really nice! Door as a separate object is fine. I might not use it that way ATM, but it's nice to have the option.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on July 05, 2012, 01:26:16 am
I sent to you model in PM, look at it and say if you want to change something...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 07, 2012, 11:51:20 pm
Monastery open for service...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and34.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on July 08, 2012, 11:05:01 am
It's nice in the game and it seems, that you can open/close door :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on July 08, 2012, 09:28:24 pm
looks very nice
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on July 10, 2012, 03:28:46 pm
Looking good.  Glad the project is still moving along.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Disastorm on July 16, 2012, 11:05:18 am
This game looks really good. I feel like if you add combat and a story that it could probably do well on the android market.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on July 25, 2012, 10:16:58 pm
Any news? Do you want create a model? :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 26, 2012, 07:24:10 am
I still need a model of a hut... ;)

I was distracted by playing L.A. Noire during the last week, so not much happened. I implemented some logic to add accessories to the npcs like weapons or clothes, but i have problems with the clothes because some polygons from the npc's mesh shine through. If that is fixed, i'll post an update.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on August 03, 2012, 11:52:15 pm
Could you send me the image of hut, which you want? Link on previous page doesn't work...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 03, 2012, 11:59:44 pm
Could you send me the image of hut, which you want? Link on previous page doesn't work...
I works if you copy it into the browser, i.e. eliminate the referrer.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on August 04, 2012, 10:06:16 am
How many triangles the hut should has? With overlapping boards in the corners it will be more than 800, without roughly 200... And do you want room inside? Or just model from outside?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 04, 2012, 09:12:10 pm
800 is a bit too much, so i would say without the overlapping is fine. It would be nice if the one could enter the hut. But i don't think that i'll use this in the first step, so just keep the door shut. But it's good to have the option.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Disastorm on August 08, 2012, 05:03:41 am
Wow how do you have so much stuff in your world without running out of memory? How many polys are those trees and bushes?

Oh noticed on the first post you mentioned you didn't think it would run on Android 2.X VM.  I didn't read through the rest of the thread, have you gotten it running on those VM or is it too much memory?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 08, 2012, 10:01:13 pm
Oh noticed on the first post you mentioned you didn't think it would run on Android 2.X VM.  I didn't read through the rest of the thread, have you gotten it running on those VM or is it too much memory?
It should work (it's using 21mb at max ATM), but i never tried it (i was just too lazy to try to run it on my wife's Galaxy S). I'm not targeting anything below 4.x anyway. When this will be finished, 2.x will be ancient anyway. I don't care about 3.x either, because it has this stupid native buffer bug, where it reserves twice the memory that it needs and there's no fix for this.

About the polygon count: Bushes have 24 polygons, trees around 200 each. each grass patch has 2, the terrain has 7000...all the other stuff has...polygons...i can't remember the exact counts.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Disastorm on August 11, 2012, 03:47:33 am
I need some low poly stuff.  Did you make the trees yourself or did you get them somewhere?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 23, 2012, 09:47:57 pm
I need some low poly stuff.  Did you make the trees yourself or did you get them somewhere?
They are from some public domain library and somebody here modified them slightly to look better.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 23, 2012, 09:53:27 pm
I've added the hut (thanks to Thomas for this)...here it is standing at the south-western corner of the map (don't wonder about the 11 fps...it was a capture problem)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and36.png)

...and some herbs are growing behind it...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and37.png)

In addition, i started the grunt work by moving the world definitions (i.e. where each entity is located on the map) from hardcoded java to xml.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Marlon on August 23, 2012, 11:10:55 pm
Wow, thumbs up!
This looks great! :)
I am looking forward...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 24, 2012, 10:00:08 pm
Wow, thumbs up!
This looks great! :)
I am looking forward...
Thanks...it's still a long way to go though...

I've accidently fixed the hut's lighting (was too dark on Android before) and added another one in another corner of the map. Thomas also reworked the texturing:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and38.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on August 24, 2012, 10:15:01 pm
looks very nice :) as always your apps acts as a showcase for jPCT ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 27, 2012, 10:33:37 pm
Thomas was so kind to create a hut with reduced size and modified texture that i indent to use as housing for the monks (and maybe for simpler town houses)...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and39.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: AGP on September 02, 2012, 06:41:21 am
Any plans on publishing on Google Play? I'm looking forward both to play and to show it around the office as a demo for what jpct can do (wouldn't mind paying you for something jpct-related after so many years of getting it for free, either).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 02, 2012, 08:01:51 pm
Any plans on publishing on Google Play?
Yes, but it's still a long way to go before that. At least some basic game play should be included before i publish something somewhere.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 28, 2012, 11:12:07 pm
I'm working on some simple gui classes ATM, but i've got nothing to show right now. However, i tried if i could use the additional power of the Nexus 7 tablet (compared to my Nexus S phone) to crank up the details a little bit (i.e. add more grass patches). It turned out, that there isn't that much room for improvement... i could increase it a notch or two, but that doesn't really add much to the visuals. On the desktop however, this is possible (so much for mobile devices reaching for the desktop in terms of performance...):

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop1.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on September 29, 2012, 12:14:20 am
From my experience rendering grass this way is very slow. In my another game (out of project page) I'm using triangles (and simple shader) for oat and it is very fast. I was inspired by vegetation from FarCry 2... And your game looks very nice with a lot of grass ;)

(http://playstation3.avaris-games.cz/files/far-cry-2[1].jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 29, 2012, 12:32:11 pm
From my experience rendering grass this way is very slow.
Which way do you mean?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on September 29, 2012, 01:26:17 pm
From your screenshots I would estimate two transparent and billboarded triangles with texture... right? If it is only one triangle, you can try to use two triangles. In particle system was the use of two triangles faster about 10% (maybe because count of rendering pixels was lower)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 29, 2012, 04:22:20 pm
Yes, they are billboarded quads which are dynamically added to the scene based on the camera's position and orientation. The algorithm that cares about this was a brain flash of mine that i stopped understanding right after implementing it... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 02, 2012, 11:49:59 pm
Grunt work, i.e. implementing a basic GUI framework for doing...the GUI...like the inventory and a quest book and whatnot. ATM, it can render basic elements like windows, labels, buttons, images, group them, define drag-and-drop sources and targets and scale the GUI. This is the test case on the desktop resembling a basic inventory screen, where you can move items around and stack them:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop2.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 07, 2012, 11:27:08 pm
More grunt work on the GUI...i really hate making GUIs and/or GUI frameworks. I somehow always feel dirty afterwards...anyway, it now has the inventory, a quickslot bar (right to the inventory), the player's silhouette to equip items and a text area with item descriptions. Draging, stacking and splitting seems to work fine now between all components, but the code that handles this looks like s**t... ;)

Anyway...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop3.png)

Edit: Nothing in this prototype is final btw...it's just a kind of reusable test case (which means that most of the stuff should be usable in the actual game).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 09, 2012, 07:44:17 pm
Nice GUI.  I'm replaying Betrayal at Krondor, which I really love.  They kept it simple by not letting the player carry too many items.  I feel the same about GUI.  I don't like working on it, but it is really important to the game.   An overly complex GUI makes the game drag. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 09, 2012, 11:33:37 pm
...plus it has to be usable and readable on a smartphone display. What i currently have seems to work fine on the desktop but i'm not so sure if it will do the same on the phone. I added tabs on top of the inventory section and did a rescaled mock-up to see the actual size on the phone...it didn't look too promising... :(
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 11, 2012, 08:36:38 pm
Tabs and more items to test with and such...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop4.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on October 11, 2012, 10:34:17 pm
Nice work ;) are you using different images for different screen resolution?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 11, 2012, 10:57:51 pm
No. The gui scales with the screen height and that includes the images for the items. At 800*480, they are already scaled up a little as each item is 32*32 pixels in size and covers a ~50*50 rectangle on screen.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 13, 2012, 12:15:35 am
Tried the GUI on the actual Android device...apart from some bugs in the scaling code, it worked fine but it was unusable, at least on the phone (it worked ok on the tablet). Tabs were to small, font was too small and dragging required some luck...so i reworked it by enlarging the tabs and the font and making the items larger while dragging...works much better now, but still not perfect.

Anyway...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and41.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 13, 2012, 01:12:32 pm
I think it looks better with the redesign.  Making the items larger during drag was a good idea.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 26, 2012, 11:52:12 pm
The inventory is now part of the actual game, but it still isn't a real inventory. It's all dummy content ATM and moving stuff around in it has no influence on the game or the graphics. Anyway, i've added a shield model to prepare for this.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and42.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 30, 2012, 04:38:49 pm
It looks more like an RPG all the time!  I like the fog, also. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 11, 2012, 10:26:24 pm
Added the first actual game play element... ;)...you can now collect the flowers and they appear correctly in the inventory. I also added rocks to the terrain to make it look a little more varied. For the desktop version (which isn't an official version, it exists solely to speed up development), i've added the option to do some terraforming by selecting vertices in game, move them up/down and save the result to disk. That way, i can finally remove some artifacts caused by the polygon reduction that resulted in vertical ledges here and there, which looked really ugly.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and44.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 14, 2012, 10:29:59 pm
Added a moving, rotating (and potentially zooming) mini map.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and45.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on November 14, 2012, 10:49:42 pm
nice to see progress :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 17, 2012, 10:53:25 pm
Added quickslots to the in-game gui. You could already populate them in the inventory, but it didn't show up in game. Now it does. Within the slots, you can drag items around like in the inventory itself but that's all that works ATM. In addition, i finally found out why the orientations of my trees didn't look as diversified as i expected them to...it was because i'm stupid... ;)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and46.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on November 20, 2012, 12:00:41 am
I don't know if it would slow it or whatever, but if the trees were scaled randomly, that would help with diversity also.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 20, 2012, 07:21:28 am
That's true. I thought about it, but i can't remember anymore why i didn't do it. I'll have a look again...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 20, 2012, 11:03:30 pm
I remembered the reason why i didn't do it, but now i've implemented it in a way that seems to work fine and doesn't have the problems that my initial approaches had. It's cool...while there's still no real forest on that map, making the trees, bushes and rocks scaled by random gives it a more natural and dense feel.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and47.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on November 21, 2012, 10:45:31 pm
Yeah, I like it.  It does have a more natural look.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: KittenKoder on November 24, 2012, 12:41:17 am
Beautiful graphics. I'm so bad with uv mapping I can't even come close to such detail. It's why I stick with the virtual reality or Tron look.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on December 06, 2012, 01:58:05 pm
Looking good! Any chance you could post up or send an APK of it's current state? I'd like to compare the framerate performance against an app I made in jPCT
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 10, 2012, 11:49:55 pm
No, i don't think that i want to post the APK at the moment. However, i wanted to post a new video and here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUXsjI4AXu8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUXsjI4AXu8)

It shows some additional features like crates, npcs, bags, parts of the gui, the inventory etc...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on December 12, 2012, 12:10:33 am
Ok no probs. I think I found the performance issue, too many lights or excessive cut off distance.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 12, 2012, 03:22:40 am
Great looking video.  You've really made a lot of progress.  Controls look interesting and fun, like throwing things onto the landscape and equipping the player.  Have you thought about making it modable?  Maybe a little early for that kind of thinking.  I'd really just like to see it get completed.  I've hardly ever seen friends, etc, finish an rpg.  They're just such a large project.  I still may try one some day, but looking at this, I can really see how much work goes into one.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on December 13, 2012, 07:57:31 pm
Nice ;) how fast is running on nexus 7?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 13, 2012, 08:43:51 pm
Something between 35 and 60 fps.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on December 13, 2012, 10:34:08 pm
Have you ever tried the game on SGS3? Is running faster?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 13, 2012, 10:41:34 pm
No, i haven't. I've tried it on the Galaxy Note, which has the same 1280*800 resolution that the Nexus 7 has. It runs a little faster on that Mali chipset (but keep in mind that the Nexus 7 uses cheap ram. Other Tegra devices might be faster) and it even looks better because Tegra's texture accuracy is even lower than Mali's. It's more consistent in the way that it looks either good or bad on Tegra where the rendering quality is more unsteady on Mali, but i somehow like the Mali look better.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on December 20, 2012, 05:04:31 pm
I see you have taken a kind turn towards Mali devices, come on admit it, they aren't that bad :D

In saying that, the Tegra 3 tablet I have seems to have a few distance related flicker glitches here and there so every device has it's strengths and weaknesses.

*cough* except for nVidia desktop chipsets *cough* (long time fan, always delivered expectations)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2012, 08:22:09 am
I see you have taken a kind turn towards Mali devices, come on admit it, they aren't that bad :D
I'm undecided if Tegra or Mali is better...or worse...they are both inaccurate (every mobile chip is inaccurate, but PowerVR is still superior). The fact that Mali can't handle complex calculations with float numbers larger than ~65500 is really tricky and Tegra's default depth buffer accuracy is laughable (as you have experienced yourself).


In saying that, the Tegra 3 tablet I have seems to have a few distance related flicker glitches here and there so every device has it's strengths and weaknesses.
That's because Tegra's depth buffer behaviour is crap by default. You have to use some extension to improve it. The latest jPCT-AE version has a class in util that helps to choose a config that should fix this in most cases.

*cough* except for nVidia desktop chipsets *cough* (long time fan, always delivered expectations)
I used ATI/AMD for years and never had a problem. I bought the GTX 680 this time and seem to have a faulty memory chip...well....
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: K24A3 on December 21, 2012, 01:18:32 pm
IMO the nVidia drivers are what sets it apart from ATI, they have always been superior. But if you use the 'correct' driver version, ATI cards are fine.

Latest jPCT version as in v1.26? I'll have a look...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2012, 03:17:37 pm
Latest jPCT version as in v1.26? I'll have a look...

Yes...http://www.jpct.net/jpct-ae/doc/com/threed/jpct/util/NVDepthConfigChooser.html (http://www.jpct.net/jpct-ae/doc/com/threed/jpct/util/NVDepthConfigChooser.html)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2012, 11:55:14 pm
I case you are wondering what i'm constantly talking about "accuracy", just have a look at this...it's roughly the same scene rendered on four different devices.

The desktop version on a GTX 680. This is how it's supposed to look: http://jpct.de/download/acc/desktop.png (http://jpct.de/download/acc/desktop.png)

PowerVR on a Nexus S. Not as good as the desktop and with some banding, but at least somehow filtered: http://jpct.de/download/acc/powevr.png (http://jpct.de/download/acc/powevr.png)

Mali on a Galaxy Note. Filtered, but fuzzy and inconsistent in movement: http://jpct.de/download/acc/mali.png (http://jpct.de/download/acc/mali.png)

Tegra on Nexus 7: Just plain awful. It IS filtered, but accuracy is so low, that you don't notice this here: http://jpct.de/download/acc/tegra.png (http://jpct.de/download/acc/tegra.png)

Edit: Please note that you don't notice this that much in the normal game, because you usually don't stare at the ground. But it's ugly anyway...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on December 22, 2012, 02:51:40 pm
Oh, it looks really horrible on Tegra 3... Why is this happening? Is it fragment shader accuracy?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 22, 2012, 05:35:55 pm
No, it's texture/filtering accuracy. If you stretch a texture with little changes in u/v coordinates along a large polygon, it looks like this.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 04, 2013, 11:29:56 pm
I've added an ugly world map in addition to the mini-map. You can place up to 5 colored markers (similar to and in preparation of quest markers) on the map which will show up on the mini-map too to easy navigation.
Chests now contain (totally random) items that can be dragged into your inventory or dropped onto the ground. I'll add stuff like a "take all" button later.

The main map:
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and48.png)

The mini-map with markers and the chest content (as well as some dropped items):
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and50.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 04, 2013, 11:56:50 pm
Nice! the map is generated automatically or it is created by you?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 05, 2013, 12:06:25 am
It's created by Terragen according to my settings, largely reduced in polygon count by using the method mentioned in the wiki and then fixed with some ingame editing which is available in the desktop version of the game. In addition, it's modified in code too by placing houses and fences and stuff, which all flatten the underlying terrain. The splatting texture has been drawn by me based on the height map created by Terragen.
The geometry is more or less final, but the splatting texture isn't. It's missing a lot of additional locations, tracks etc.

Edit: And about the view of the map ingame...it's a simple image created by a stand-alone program that renders the whole terrain from above at once.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 05, 2013, 12:29:23 am
So, for what you have height map? For collisions with the terrain? It can be much faster than the real collisions :) ...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 05, 2013, 12:48:36 am
I don't use the height map from Terragen in the game. I can create another height map based on the modified geometry in a special mode in the desktop version (it takes some minutes to compute). Resolution is 1000*1000, which seems to be a reasonable compromise between accuracy and memory footprint (it's stores height values in some compressed form, so it only takes half the memory and uses some crude interpolation for inbetween values). I'm not using it for collisions with the terrain as it wouldn't be accurate enough for this, but i'm using it for moving entities like the goblin and for the grass patches.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 08, 2013, 11:15:15 pm
I started working on the dialog system...boring grunt work with nothing to show ATM.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 11, 2013, 11:25:11 pm
Did a first version of the dialog system and ui. It's still missing proper buttons and such and there are some other, minor glitches but here it is (the dialog is all dummy content. It has nothing to do with the actual game):

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and52.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on February 12, 2013, 08:46:47 pm
Nice, I know there is still a long way, but I am already looking forward to the playable demo :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 13, 2013, 05:00:36 am
Have you figured out how it will influence the game?  For instance, adding a quest, changing stats, etc?
Anyway, looks like a good start.  Glad you are still making progress.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 13, 2013, 07:56:03 am
Have you figured out how it will influence the game?  For instance, adding a quest, changing stats, etc?
Yes, something like that. Giving quests, ending quests, giving hints...that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Minigame on February 13, 2013, 09:27:54 pm
As a gamer, I really enjoyed watching the YouTube video; as a novice 3D developer, it's inspirational to say the least. Did you create the assets yourself?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on February 13, 2013, 11:22:20 pm
Sweet stuff... do you plan to add (fake) shadows to the trees etc.?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 15, 2013, 09:33:35 pm
Did you create the assets yourself?
Only to a very small degree. Most of this stuff is either taken from free art sites or created by some members of the jPCT community. Once the game is actually a real game, i might going to spend some money on additional art.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 15, 2013, 09:35:27 pm
... do you plan to add (fake) shadows to the trees etc.?
The trees actually have a kind of blob shadow below them, but it's very subtle. It's baked into the splatting texture and if i make too dark, it's starts to look strange.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 19, 2013, 10:48:00 pm
Added more gameplay related stuff: An answer during the dialog can now make the NPC aim for a new target anywhere on the map. He will then walk towards that target after the dialog has been ended. If the NPC is visible, this will happen using the normal calculations and animations. If he's not visible, it happens on a grid based approach where the NPC "jumps" from position to position until he reaches the target. If he comes into view again, he'll revert to normal mode, of course.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 02, 2013, 11:51:37 pm
I'm working on a book...no, not a real one... ;) A book in the game to display Quests and additional background information in form of books that you can find. ATM, it's a stand alone Activity that waits to be integrated into the game.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and53.png)

Yes, it's animated and you flip pages by dragging...and yes, the text has been ripped from a book from Skyrim... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 03, 2013, 12:18:14 am
Wow, it is nice! It may sound crazy, but Apple has patented flip pages animation ;D
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/apple-now-owns-the-page-turn/ (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/apple-now-owns-the-page-turn/)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 03, 2013, 09:06:30 am
This doesn't apply in germany anyway. And even if it would, i don't think that it's comparable. One is a keyframed 3d animation while the other one is some 2d algorithm.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 06, 2013, 12:23:41 am
Started to add the book to the game. It's still using the old dummy text and flipping using touch controls somehow sucks ATM. Implementation wise, i made the game think that it's part of the 2D GUI...which it isn't, it has it's own world and light sources and stuff. That eases some things, because it allows me to treat dialogs, windows and the book in the same way.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and54.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 07, 2013, 04:41:12 am
Pretty cool.  Really shaping up. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on April 16, 2013, 10:55:00 pm
Hurray! You can now complete your first quest...which is: Talk to a character about his teddy bear, go to a chest and grab the teddy bear, give it to him and get a ring in return. Doesn't sound much, but it's something to build upon.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on April 17, 2013, 06:54:12 am
Yes, those are the basic blocks of most interactions.  Glad you are still making progress.   
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on April 21, 2013, 10:18:46 pm
Glad you are still making progress.
It's hard sometimes to motivate yourself to do this kind of grunt work, but i'm doing my best. Today, i've changed the book from using static text to show the actual quest log. The screen shot has been taken on my new Nexus 4 btw., so even if it doesn't show anything really new, i'll post it anyway... ;)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and55.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on April 25, 2013, 03:04:37 am
looks cool:) how do you do that? by rendering text to a texture?

note: once again forum did not notify me by email. happens seldom but sometimes
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on April 25, 2013, 07:36:00 am
looks cool:) how do you do that? by rendering text to a texture?
Yes, i'm using a modified version of your text rendering classes to render into four different textures (to cover all visible pages). I had to modifiy the classes slightly to tweak the text scaling. Blitting and render to texture doesn't work too well together otherwise.

note: once again forum did not notify me by email. happens seldom but sometimes
No idea. I don't have access to any logs of that kind.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on April 27, 2013, 03:17:38 am
It's really getting a polished look to it.  Nice job.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 04, 2013, 12:28:54 am
How is Adreno 320 fast and accurate in your game? How does this compare with your other devices?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 04, 2013, 11:02:12 pm
How is Adreno 320 fast and accurate in your game? How does this compare with your other devices?
It's very accurate when it comes to rendering the textures. In fact, it's the only platform where my terrain splatting looks as it looks on the desktop. The 16bit zbuffer sucks though. You have to request at least 24bit of zbuffer depth, or it will flicker in the distance. Performance is fine, but nothing to write home about. The Galaxy Note (same resolution, lower clock speed) can render the game faster.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 04, 2013, 11:30:29 pm
How is possible, that in probably every graphics benchmark is Adreno 320 faster than Mali-400?

GLBenchamrk (http://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?D1=Google+Nexus+4&D2=Samsung+GT-I9228+Galaxy+Note&cols=2)
3D mark (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6875/3dmark-for-android-performance-preview)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 04, 2013, 11:37:09 pm
Yes, i know, but that's how it is. Different apps have different demands, i guess. Judging from some quick tests, it seems to me that it suffers from state changes and multiple draw calls more than other chips. And because i have hundreds of draw calls per frame...well...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 04, 2013, 11:54:09 pm
And the catacombs? There is much lower number of draw calls...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 05, 2013, 12:09:21 am
They are on par with the Note, maybe a little faster. Don't underestimate the number of draw calls to render them...nothing in this game except for the terrain is solid geometry in a way that you would create it with some 3d editor. Everything is created at runtime out of simple beans that describe the position, orientation and attributes of an entity and then some view will be assigned, if that entity is visible. For the dungeon, each tile is a separate entity and requires up to 5 draw calls (torches and doors left aside).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 05, 2013, 11:44:07 am
Are you using tangent or object space normal mapping?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 05, 2013, 01:21:00 pm
Tangent space.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 05, 2013, 01:40:10 pm
Vainly trying to figure out why everyone are using normal mapping in tangent space instead of object space. Object space is faster and less memory-intensive. Or what is main differences?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 05, 2013, 06:56:37 pm
Object space normal maps can't be reused on different objects and you can't create (...fake) them simply based on a texture. In addition, using them on deforming objects can be an issue.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 26, 2013, 09:58:53 pm
This is how the AI sees the world:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/Blockers.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 26, 2013, 10:42:13 pm
Every red point is obstacle? I see monastery and houses :) Do you want these models? They are from my old and probably dead project...

(http://s20.postimg.org/rls422fll/device_2013_05_26_223631.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rls422fll/)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 27, 2013, 07:40:29 am
Yes, they are obstacles. The smaller dots are mostly trees and rocks. I've you've some models to spare, i would be very grateful.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 10, 2013, 09:45:34 pm
Hunted by a pack of goblins...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and59.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 11, 2013, 07:31:18 pm
The NPCs now may have a (very subtle) blob shadow. I wanted to add this for ages, but i hadn't figured out how to do it efficiently on Android. After all, a simple flat shadow plane that moves with the character won't work in this terrain. It has to adopt to the terrain to a degree but i couldn't use a projective texture either. So i had to look for a way to make a plane roughly follow the terrain without impacting performance...and this is it:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and60.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 11, 2013, 07:43:45 pm
Nice, did you have any problems with depth buffer accuracy?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 11, 2013, 10:38:24 pm
Nothing noticable. The plane is shifted a few units up, which you usually can't see. I tested it on desktop, Adreno and Tegra so far and it works fine on them. I'll try on PowerVR once the damn slow Nexus S has finished all updates that it thinks it has to install (haven't turned it on for some weeks). The Mali device is on holiday together with my wife, so i can't try that ATM... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on June 12, 2013, 12:05:01 pm
looks nice  :) how do you make shadow plane fit to terrain? using collisions similar to car sample? ie: 4 collisions for 4 corners of plane?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 12, 2013, 01:38:33 pm
... using collisions similar to car sample? ie: 4 collisions for 4 corners of plane?
No, not exactly. That was my first idea but it had the problem that it was much too slow on Android to do it that way. But i already have this height map that i'm using for npc movement anyway and i have a method that returns the current height at any point based on this height map and a strange linear interpolation. I'm using this to take three samples around the enemies position and calculate the normal vector of the plane that these three points span. I'm then using a linear interpolation between this vector and the former one and rotate the shadow plane to match the resulting vector.
So...it's a linear interpolation of a linear interpolation of some height map values...sounds strange but works pretty well.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: IZACIZAC on June 17, 2013, 05:53:12 am
Are you streaming in map data, or pre-loading it all? Just curious because I am trying to stream map data and have no idea how to do it efficiently, any pointers would be awesome :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 17, 2013, 09:53:16 pm
Nope, no streaming. It's loaded as one large lump of geometry. It's not that large, so that's not a problem. I'm not trying to create something in the range of Skyrim here.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on June 23, 2013, 02:17:23 pm
Looks definitely better with the shadows. Can you already shoot those bastards?  ;D
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 23, 2013, 09:20:15 pm
Can you already shoot those bastards?  ;D
Yes, in the latest version, you can shoot them with the bow.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 23, 2013, 10:49:32 pm
Nice, I looking forward at some video ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Minigame on June 26, 2013, 01:21:35 am
This is coming along great.. Such detailed content. Can't wait for a video........ and a download link in due time ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 27, 2013, 08:34:54 pm
I tried to record a video using my rooted Note and Screencast, but the results somehow suck. At least this device isn't fast enough to handle recording, compression and the game together without stuttering. The frame rate itself isn't that bad, but it feels (and looks) sluggish and doesn't do the game justice.... :(
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 29, 2013, 02:45:48 pm
A new video: http://youtu.be/oew62wECxqY (http://youtu.be/oew62wECxqY)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 29, 2013, 03:05:08 pm
A lot of new stuff from last video, nice, nice, nice! ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Wolf17 on June 29, 2013, 04:50:32 pm
        Wow ,Your project looks nice ! I just imagined if this game will be cel/toon shaded ,It would be an eye catcher for  me ! (well, that's me!).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on June 30, 2013, 03:04:09 am
Looking really good!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Minigame on July 01, 2013, 01:26:02 am
Nice bit of detail implemented into game play so far!
Any tips for producing a 2D mini map texture based on terraingen maps (.obj)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 17, 2013, 11:13:28 pm
Any tips for producing a 2D mini map texture based on terraingen maps (.obj)?
I've made myself a little helper class that loads the terrain, renders it from above when moved far away from the camera with a very narrow fov and saves the result. I then use some image editor to convert it into a proper texture.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 17, 2013, 11:16:34 pm
I've started to add enemies to the dungeons. The basic interfaces and stubs were already there, the combat and movement AI is the same, but as usual...the devil is in the detail. Anyway, it now works so far on the desktop (haven't tried on Android yet):

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun12.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on July 18, 2013, 04:40:17 am
Cool.  What are the red spots behind the ogre?
Have you thought about other AI such as skeletons, rats, etc?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 18, 2013, 08:16:07 am
Cool.  What are the red spots behind the ogre?
That's some blood. I'm hitting him with the sword in this screen shot, but it isn't visible in that frame of its animation.
Have you thought about other AI such as skeletons, rats, etc?
I don't think that i'll implemented vastly different behaviours for different kinds of enemies. I can still play around with trigger distances to simulate different AI, but i actually don't think that anybody will notice it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on July 18, 2013, 06:47:18 pm
Quote
I don't think that i'll implemented vastly different behaviours for different kinds of enemies. I can still play around with trigger distances to simulate different AI, but i actually don't think that anybody will notice it.

I don't think so, either.  You can just use different attack animations.  Personally,  I liked the old turn based, grid system the best, but that's kind of not used much anymore. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 18, 2013, 11:43:42 pm
Personally,  I liked the old turn based, grid system the best, but that's kind of not used much anymore.
It made a strong apperance in Legend of Grimrock (can't wait for the second part... ;) ), but i won't use it here. At least not in a visible way. Behind the scenes, almost everything in the game is grid based. It simplifies things a lot and gives you better performance on Android. Some minutes ago, i fixed a problem when the AI failed to find a way to the player in some cases, because it treated it's own grid as a block...it took me some time to figure that out... :o
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on July 22, 2013, 08:02:32 pm
I'm downloading the demo for The Legend Of Grimrock right now.  Looks kind of interesting.  Pretty decent price, also.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on July 23, 2013, 12:58:56 pm
Egon, this has probably been asked before, but I wonder if you plan to make this a commercial project, or "just" a demonstration for JPCT-AE (and your game-making skills, of course).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 23, 2013, 09:53:06 pm
No, i have no commercial plans for this one. I would have to replace a lot of the content because of its licenses anyway. It's just something that i wanted to do for years...so i'm doing it now in whatever pace that i can accomplish.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 09, 2013, 10:59:41 pm
Yes, i'm still on it...

Enemy AI and path finding now handles the dungeon case better and you can place chests in the dungeons, too. ...and enemies won't run into them... ;)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun14.png)

I also worked on the lore of the land to develop a feel for the game that i want to make. That back story doesn't necessarily make it into the game or at least not in this form, but it will eventually help to create the locations, the quests, the characters and how they behave and what they are going to tell you.
With the helps of this text, i also defined how the three villages of the game should look like and so i worked on the second one:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and61.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 10, 2013, 10:58:38 pm
Nice to see you're still working on it.  Big project.  Back story is important. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 11, 2013, 08:23:08 pm
Yes, it's quite large for a spare time project, but i'm not in a hurry.

Btw: Does anybody has or knows a place for some free to use objects to create a basic hut/house interior? Like the room itself with some window, a table, a bed, a chair, a fireplace etc...i searched opengameart, but even a simple fireplace bad more polygons then my whole terrain... :(
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Dumblecore on September 11, 2013, 10:52:40 pm
You could try this site:
http://www.reinerstilesets.de/3d-grafiken/

Or maybe TurboSquid (http://www.turbosquid.com/)

Maybe I can share some of my own models some time in the future (when they're finished)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 12, 2013, 08:11:10 pm
If you want to post the models and textures, I could just do the interior and then delete the exterior if you didn't need it.  If you don't like it you don't have to use it.  I could use the practice with Blender as long as there isn't a rush on it.  They keep updating it and it's like a new experience figuring it out every time I use it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 12, 2013, 08:28:03 pm
You could try this site:
http://www.reinerstilesets.de/3d-grafiken/
Too high poly from what i can see... :(
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 12, 2013, 08:37:34 pm
If you want to post the models and textures, I could just do the interior and then delete the exterior if you didn't need it.
The room and it's interior doesn't need to resemble the building's outside look. The idea is that each house or hut uses more or less the same room with differently arranged interior. The room might have a NPC in it or it might be empty and the player shouldn't be able to move around it in. It's a compromise between making the houses all closed and design every one individually.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 13, 2013, 02:36:29 am
So you'll do it like the dungeon?  I'll see if I can make a fireplace and some furniture, etc, low poly.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 13, 2013, 03:19:28 am
I made a simple fireplace with a log in it.  Does it need to be one texture? 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: grog on September 13, 2013, 06:17:42 am
Looking awesome as always!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 13, 2013, 08:11:26 pm
Does it need to be one texture?
It doesn't have to, but less textures are always a good thing.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 13, 2013, 09:22:18 pm
Basically, if it's one, it no longer uses the seamless feature of the texture, so it won't look as clear at the same size and the texture isn't re-usable.  I'll do both since I need the practice. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 14, 2013, 05:51:32 pm
OK, this is two textures to just try out anyway.  It's on Mediafire, which I've never used and I haven't used Blender in a while so let me know if it even works, then I'll try the single texture.  If you want more poly's like I don't know, rounded edges or something, let me know. 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bmia99ibkezzb24/fireplace.zip

Be careful that mediafire doesn't rope you into something, it's supposed to be free.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 16, 2013, 09:13:59 pm
Works fine so far. If you have some polygons to spare, maybe a wooden bar like in this picture is possible:http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/moonb007/moonb0070806/moonb007080600009/3182248-an-old-log-cabin-fireplace.jpg (http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/moonb007/moonb0070806/moonb007080600009/3182248-an-old-log-cabin-fireplace.jpg)? You could use the same texture that you are using for the wood.

However, if you want to make more stuff over time, the most important thing for me would be the room itself...just a rectangle with a kind of stone floor, wooden walls (this is the actual hut texture that i'm using: http://jpct.de/download/tmp/hut.jpg (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/hut.jpg)) and a wooden roof, maybe with some wooden bars too. And an extra mesh for the window like in the texture above, so that i can place windows freely and light them differently. It doesn't have to have door, because you won't be able to move freely anyway, so the door is always behind you... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 17, 2013, 01:46:42 am
Ok, I figured you would be making the room like you are making the dungeons so it wouldn't be necessary to actually make the room walls.   I'll get started on it. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 17, 2013, 05:43:39 am
Here's the interior:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/owugotw5odyg7r6/hut.zip

If it looks all right, I'll make a window like furniture that you can add wherever you want.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 17, 2013, 09:10:13 pm
It's close to what i had in mind, but it has a few issues...

Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 18, 2013, 01:20:26 am
OK, I'll go back over it.   I grabbed something and moved it accidentally and didn't see it soon enough.   Thought I had it straightened out but apparently not.  I'm a little rusty. 
The ceiling and wall texture are the same texture, just used in a different way.  There are just a floor texture and a wood panel texture. Must be something about the texture repeat I didn't see in Blender.   I better use a different type of lighting.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 18, 2013, 06:48:14 pm
Try this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/udsp6933jb7u5on/hutMed.3ds

Hope it works.  I put a cube up to it and tried to straighten it out that way and worked on the textures on one wall, and the woodwork was too high in a couple places.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 19, 2013, 08:43:15 pm
One wall still has another texture than the others:

(http://jpct.de/download/tmp/hut_interior.jpg)

Apart from that, it looks fine... :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 19, 2013, 09:11:28 pm
It doesn't look like that in Blender.   I see you changed texture to a brick on the walls.  How did you do that when it was all the same material as the woodwork and ceiling?  The wood texture also doesn't look good on the beams to me.  Could you post those textures, or did you with the one you showed me a while back?  I'm used to using seamless textures, would that be too many?  Would you rather have the woodwork as a separate object?  It might be easier to work with.  The woodwork might look a little nicer if it was the same as the beams, also.  I'm not sure what to do about that wall.  It looks like the uv's got messed up and the worst is it doesn't show in Blender.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 19, 2013, 09:52:04 pm
I simply loaded the model in DeepExploration and assigned some random texture to each material. That's also why is looks bad on the beams. It's not your fault, it's just a cheap texture. However, DeepExploration shows 4 materials:


Apart from that, texturing of the ceiling looks somehow distorted. You don't really notice it in my screen shot, but if i'm using the brick texture for the ceiling, it shows up. It's not aligned to the walls like the floor texture is.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 20, 2013, 01:33:41 am
OK, I'm going to rethink this.  I take it you want the walls to all have one texture.  The ceiling to have a separate texture.  The floor to have a separate texture.  I'll use one texture on the woodwork and beams.  I'll try to do the texture scaling using math so they are all the same.  I'll do this by assigning different materials to those parts, which is probably what happened.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 20, 2013, 03:13:39 am
Try this.  I got kind of lost trying to assign materials, so I opened a new texture file when all the walls were selected and gave the ceiling a different texture altogether.  I also re-scaled so they are approximately scaled the same.  I think.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3x6qe8da87mpux3/hutMed2.3ds
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 23, 2013, 08:23:24 pm
Looks good now!  ;D I'll add it to the game when i find the time.

Edit: I made a little test case for the desktop to test stuff. This is the room with the fireplace and some random textures:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/interior_test.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 24, 2013, 02:34:59 am
Looks good.  The fireplace should probably go to the ceiling.  I can make it longer if you like. 
Good thing it worked because I was pretty much at the limits of my Blender knowledge, which admittedly isn't that large of a limit.  I'll see if I can play around with some rustic furniture in my spare time.  Maybe a table and a bench or something.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 24, 2013, 09:52:12 am
Maybe a table and a bench or something.
..and maybe a window... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 27, 2013, 12:00:38 am
Here's a table.  Let me know if it will work.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dkw3au63jfy7adh/table.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 27, 2013, 05:28:31 am
improved fireplace
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dwlcmanrz7krerl/fireplace+%282%29.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 27, 2013, 05:57:43 am
window
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5512i8u5s2d143w/window.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 27, 2013, 10:46:02 pm
Very cool, many thanks for that. I really appreciate it. I added everything (plus some free bookcase that i found online) into my basic interior decoration class.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/hut1s.jpg)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/hut3s.jpg)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/hut2s.jpg)

Looks even better than i expected... :) I think that the window frame should be a bit thinner, i.e. it shouldn't reach that far into the room. This isn't that noticable in this scenes, but i can also place it on the left wall and that looks really more like a shelf than a window frame.

Any ideas what else could be added without much affords? Maybe a chair or some table decoration (books, plates, mugs...)?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 28, 2013, 03:07:57 am
That looks pretty good.   I'll scale back the window thickness a little bit.  I'll also see if I can come up with a simple chair and plate.  You could probably just add the chest from the game here and there also.  Maybe some things you can pick up like wine bottle, cheese and bread, potion, etc.  If you are going to do that kind of thing.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 28, 2013, 04:23:59 am
modified window
http://www.mediafire.com/download/o26z4zz94ja6y2g/window+%282%29.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 28, 2013, 04:54:27 am
chair.  Same woodgrain texture so I didn't include it.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/y9ifu2cx17905ml/chair.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 28, 2013, 05:05:21 am
plate
http://www.mediafire.com/download/kdwde6v0c97yia0/plate2.zip

What do you think about bread, wine, etc?  Is it that kind of game?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 28, 2013, 11:20:02 pm
I've added the chair and the fixed window. I haven't used the plate though, because i already found a set of low poly dinnerware objects online. I also added a rug (i did this one all by myself... ;) ). This is how it looks:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/hut4s.jpg)

I'm really satisfied with how this turned out and i can't thank you enough for your contributions. Without them, i would have been stuck here...

About the picking of cheese and stuff...i'm not going to add this to the game. The interior view isn't planned to be interactive. It will be animated (fire in the fireplace, npcs breathing and such) but you won't be able to move around. If i would allow for this, i would have to implement lots of additional stuff (like making the npc react to your actions in the room, different rooms for larger building etc.). I simply don't have the time or the resource to do this. This static 3d view allows you to actually enter a building and talk to the owner but not more. It's like these 2d painting of interiors that you got in classic rpgs. It also simplifies the way of building this interiors. I don't have to model each hut, i just enable/disable stuff, move it around and change some wall textures based on some properties. The result won't be Skyrim, but it'll serve me well.
And about the chest: I liked the idea at first, but i'm not going to do this. The chest actually serves as a container for loot in the wilderness. If you see it in a house but you can't access it, it's just not logical in the game's context.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 29, 2013, 02:35:56 am
Looks good.   It's probably better to limit the scope as you are planning because rpg's can just spiderweb out and never get finished.  I like the rug, gives it a little more homey look.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 30, 2013, 11:00:58 pm
I've added it to the game...so you can now enter buildings. There's still a lot missing like more variety in the interior combinations and almost neglectable stuff like NPCs that live in the houses  ;), but anyway. It feels great to be able to enter any house or hut you like and they all look a little different from each other (and may it be only the stuff on the table), the fire is burning and crackling and the music changes to some slow and gentle tune.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and62.png)

Edit: I could use a (bar) counter as well (not much more than a textured block with some decorations that cover maybe 2/3 of the width of the room) to place inn keepers and shop owners behind it. So if somebody has or can make such thing... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 01, 2013, 12:43:33 pm
Would that be sort of like the table with a solid base?

Cool you got it working already.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 01, 2013, 12:45:42 pm
Something like this: http://www.monstermarketplace.com/living-room-collections-and-sectionals/brandon-warm-cherry-bar-counter (http://www.monstermarketplace.com/living-room-collections-and-sectionals/brandon-warm-cherry-bar-counter), just wider.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 01, 2013, 12:47:56 pm
OK, I'll do a simplified version of that.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 01, 2013, 09:12:41 pm
Here it is:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qnt9nk29q53e0d7/bar.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 02, 2013, 10:36:43 pm
And voilą, a basic tavern:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and63.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 03, 2013, 01:58:21 am
Very nice.  The whole thing works pretty good, I think.  Reminds me of those older rpg's a little, like Betrayal at Krondor, but clearer.  I love that game.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 03, 2013, 10:34:54 pm
Thank you! I'm quite pleased with the results myself. It works out better than expected, i just have to stop working on the interiors soon or i'll start to put more and more stuff, time and efforts into that part and that doesn't make much sense ATM. I'll have to add NPCs to the houses though. Today i coded some basic stuff that will come in handy for that task and i also added shops.

Ye olde shoppe:
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and64.png)


Another cool addition would be a sign to attach it to the outside of shops and tavern so that the player sees that this is a special building when approaching it. Something like this:

http://victorianchick.com/wp-content/uploads/530083_334618456630148_175929000_n-300x300.jpg (http://victorianchick.com/wp-content/uploads/530083_334618456630148_175929000_n-300x300.jpg)

It would be cool, if the sign itself and the wooden bar which holds it would be seperate objects so that i could animated the sign (making it swing). So if you are in the mood to create one last object for this task...i won't stand in your way... ;) (The text on the sign can and should be unreadable)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on October 03, 2013, 11:11:19 pm
looks really nice. you may also want to use 3drt's new dungeon pack, it has %40 discount for two weeks:  http://3drt.com/store/environments/fantasy-environments/dungeon-master-kit.html
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 04, 2013, 03:00:55 am
top post:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/4jrluz44aixzwvq/topPost.zip

sign:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/lbn4u1afg6vemxr/sign.zip

It's just a simple rectangular wood sign with nothing on it.  I didn't know what to do about that.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 05, 2013, 09:32:27 pm
It's just a simple rectangular wood sign with nothing on it.  I didn't know what to do about that.
It works fine so far:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/sign_xmpl.jpg)

For the text on it, i had something generic in mind like here: http://www.mwmythicmods.com/Gluby/images/signs/GL_Roadsigns_01a_TK_SignpostReplacer.jpg (http://www.mwmythicmods.com/Gluby/images/signs/GL_Roadsigns_01a_TK_SignpostReplacer.jpg)

I would try it myself, but the front and the back of the sign have a different texture scalings, so i can't create the effect just by changing the texture....
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 06, 2013, 03:27:16 am
I'm not much good at making words that aren't words.  Are you using the same wood texture I sent?  The texture would have to be modified.  Actually, if you could modify it the way you want it like in the bottom corner, I could reset the UV's for it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 06, 2013, 10:08:12 pm
No, i'm using a different texture (to keep texture count low), but that's not the problem. What i had in mind is something like this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/signtexture.png)

The orange part would be the wooden border of the sign and the blue part the inner area with the generic text. It would be sufficient if the uv-mapping reflects this, so that i can replace the inner area with some generic pseudo-text while the border stays intact.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 06, 2013, 10:18:50 pm
looks really nice. you may also want to use 3drt's new dungeon pack, it has %40 discount for two weeks:  http://3drt.com/store/environments/fantasy-environments/dungeon-master-kit.html
It's nice art work, but it's too complex for my dungeon design. If they would only offer some low poly fantasy characters that don't look like comic characters...  :'( The characters they are offering are either too high polygon and/or too expensive or too restricted (just skeletons) or too funny looking. However, it's a nice site. I'll keep it in mind once i have to decide how to deal with the problem that i have almost no proper character art available.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 07, 2013, 04:02:34 am
OK, there you go:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/jrqdwctcehto0gx/sign+%282%29.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 07, 2013, 09:09:08 pm
...that doesn't work as i expected it to. What i actually meant was that if i were using a texture like this

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/sign.png)

that i would the get black text as the sign's text (i.e. in the inner area) and the border textured by the parts around the black text (which includes the yellow and orange text in this example, but that's not the point...). However, what i'm getting now is this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/sign_wrong.jpg)

Edit: I tried to work around this by placing the sign's text in the lower left corner. Ignoring the fact that this is actually a huge waste of texture space and accuracy, it only works for one side. On the other side, the text in the lower left corner not only appears in the center but also on the borders... :'(
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 08, 2013, 12:49:37 am
Hmm.  That wasn't supposed to happen.  :o I mean, the lower left was right, but it should have done the same thing for both sides.  I've saved your texture and I'll try again.  However, I would have liked it better if the colored print wasn't there to do the other parts of the sign.  Because the sign is elongated, the middle part will have to take up nearly all of that middle section so it doesn't stretch the print too badly.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 08, 2013, 01:04:52 am
Try this one.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/zz04un3nr05hcql/sign+%283%29.zip
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 08, 2013, 08:59:20 pm
Perfect! ;D The sign now swings happily back and forth and if you hit it with an arrow, it swings even more. Many thanks for your efforts.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/perfectsign.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 08, 2013, 10:01:45 pm
Great!  Just took a few tries. :-[
This has been a learning experience for me.  I generally just let Blender do the texturing.  People in Wisconsin would definitely feel at home shooting signs.  All the ones around here are full of bullet holes from hunting season.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 09, 2013, 11:37:07 pm
NPCs are in the house (but you can't interact with them yet...(and they are still kinda ugly... ;)))!

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and65.png)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and66.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 10, 2013, 12:13:32 am
Nice start.  If you need a woman, you can just give the top guy longer hair.  At least you found some models that work.  I was thinking that might be a problem.  What kind of animations do they have?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 10, 2013, 07:51:44 am
That's not his hair, it's his hood... ;) I'm using these models for some time now, Marlon (http://www.forgottenelements.com/ (http://www.forgottenelements.com/)) made them once so that that i have at least something to work with, but they aren't intended to be used for the final release. However, that release is still far in the future, so i don't really bother with them ATM. They have animation for standing, walking and fighting (i think they have, i don't remember exactly ATM).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on November 07, 2013, 05:50:46 am
Making any progress?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 07, 2013, 09:04:05 pm
Yes. You can now interact with the NPCs in the buildings, i.e. you can talk to them, they can give you quests and items and the dialog options can depend on your former actions in the game.
I also enhanced the inventory GUI to support selling and buying of items and added an escape mode for outdoor npcs. If you hit them with a weapon and they aren't enemies, they'll try to flee from you. It's very basic, but i didn't want them to fight you (because i can't provide the proper animations and i would have to equip them with weapons etc.) but i also didn't like it if they don't react on an attack. The current solution is a cheap compromise that works well enough IMHO.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on November 08, 2013, 12:54:38 am
That's quite a bit.  I think fleeing would work all right.  Probably more realistic. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 25, 2013, 10:10:33 pm
Added basic support for alchemy as well as the options to eat and drop stuff from the inventory. This is how it looks if i drop the whole inventory:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and67.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on November 30, 2013, 01:53:01 am
Looks good.  Are you going to have a weight limit then?   I kind of always like that, but some don't.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 30, 2013, 09:06:11 am
No, i'm one of the 'some don't faction. The inventory is limited the size of the item grid itself. You can't store more than 24 (unique) items of a kind (weapons, armor...).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 05, 2013, 11:29:21 pm
I picked some fitting models from a huge collection of md2s and i'm trying to obtain the licenses to use them now...this is pretty difficult, because these models have been made 15 years ago and all the email addresses and webpages don't exist anymore. So far, i have the license to 3 of them and 1 is free for non-commercial use anyway. So i added some:

The Werwolf
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and68.png)

The Wraith
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and69.png)

The Dark Knight
(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and70.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 06, 2013, 05:04:53 am
Cool models, they really work well with the rest of the game.  I'd say if you can't find the owners, just use them and take them out if they see them and complain.  I rather doubt that will happen. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 06, 2013, 07:48:47 am
I'd say if you can't find the owners, just use them and take them out if they see them and complain.  I rather doubt that will happen.
That's what i'm planning to do... ;) However, i would like to be as clean as possible, so i'm trying to track them down first.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 16, 2013, 10:22:51 pm
I've tried to add the new models to the dungeon and noticed that the dungeon was too low-ceilinged for this. So i upped the ceiling by 50% and increased the door size in addition. Now, the demon fits into the dungeon nicely...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun15.png)

I also added damage to the player, so that the enemies can finally damage (but not kill ATM) the player. ATM, i'm thinking about the combat to find a balance between button mashing and at least some tatical elements that works on a mobile/touch device...i'm open to suggestions...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 20, 2013, 11:10:26 pm
I'm still looking for a replacement of the NPC model...i found a md2 model of an angry looking guy in the suit that might work, if it would have a proper, medieval looking clothing applied to it (and a more friendly face). So i tried to repaint the texture, but i totally sucked at it and the result were laughable at best. I guess one would have to re-texture him in a proper modelling tool.

So...if anybody with higher skills in this domain than i have (which isn't hard, because i have none...) would be so kind to have look at him and tell me, if this is actually feasible or if it's just a dumb idea and he'll always end up looking like a business man no matter what you do...that would be awesome!

Here's the file: http://jpct.de/download/tmp/civi.zip (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/civi.zip)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 21, 2013, 06:22:06 am
Blender doesn't even list md2 files for import anymore.   I could try a very old version, but it was a long time ago when their md2 import/export actually worked.  Since I'm not particularly busy at the moment being it's winter,  I may give it a try if no one else volunteers.   Even then, I've never been any good at textures as you may have noticed.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 21, 2013, 07:39:58 am
I hesitate to put this up.  I couldn't import the md2, but I looked at the texture and made some changes.  Probably worse than what you did.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/1bdujd0icsu9plk/civi.pcx
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 21, 2013, 11:00:44 pm
That's the exact same texture... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 22, 2013, 04:47:30 am
It's not hugely different.   I kept the same colors, but filled in the tie, added a belt, and sort of a tunic bottom.  You have to look closely.   The gray sort of works as a tunic.  I have no idea what it will look like as I can't load the model. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 26, 2013, 03:46:23 am
I just noticed that fragmotion has a sale right now for 15.00 dollars.   It allows you to paint the texture directly on the model.  Blender does it too, but won't load an md2.  You can also download a free version to try it out.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 26, 2013, 10:36:23 am
I tried that before to import mdl-files (which didn't work), but i never notices that it can handle md2 so well. I bought it now. Thanks for mentioning it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 26, 2013, 10:51:31 am
It allows you to paint the texture directly on the model.
Any brief explanation of how to do this? I found the uv-mapper, but nothing that i would call "paint directly"...?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 26, 2013, 02:44:48 pm
Unfortunately,  I haven't used it.   There's a help file and a forum to ask questions I think. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 03, 2014, 10:44:22 pm
Some update on the project! I'm now working on something that i postponed for ages, because it's soooo annoying: Saving and loading game states. You could of course simply serialize (almost) everything and deserialize it to load it, but that would cause very large save files and it would limit the possiblities to update the world without affecting the saves...so that's not what i'm doing....
So far, you can save and load maybe 60% of the game's entities and albeit the code that does this feels a bit cluttered to me, i'm quite pleased with the results so far.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 04, 2014, 12:13:50 am
Nice! Will we see some new video? :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 04, 2014, 02:39:53 am
So, did you have any luck with that character or give up?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 04, 2014, 10:00:12 am
So, did you have any luck with that character or give up?
Neither of that. I just haven't done anything with it yet.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 04, 2014, 10:12:37 am
Nice! Will we see some new video? :)
I would like to, but i'm not sure what to show. Maybe if more actual game play has been added.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 14, 2014, 11:15:53 pm
The saving and loading of game states seems to work fine now. In addition, i added two more enemies, a snake and something called Ontra in the original file...i think, i'll just keep the name. Both have pretty cool animations (that you can't see in the screen shot... ;) )

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and71.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 15, 2014, 06:59:53 pm
Nice models you are finding.  They all seem to fit well with the game.  Apparently enemies are a little easier to find then medieval civilians.  I suppose game states would be important for an rpg.  I've never gotten further than saving character positions.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 15, 2014, 08:49:56 pm
I have a collection of maybe 300-400 md2 models. Most of them don't fit, because they carry guns or are robots...or both. I narrowed it down to 30 that seemed to fit somehow and picked the 10 best fitting.

About the game states: It took me some evenings to complete this. It isn't really complicated, but it's a lot of work to create something that works fast, doesn't use too much disk space and can survive updates to the game's code and/or world.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 21, 2014, 10:41:33 pm
I bought some NPC models from corey (thanks again!) for a good price. I now have a male, a female, a wizard (will be used as monk) and a warrior (that i'm not going to use but it's texture fits the male model, which is cool). To add some variety, i created a kind of coloring map and a shader that can vary the model's texture color based on the color in the coloring map and some color index of the model that is based on the hashcode of the npc's name... ;) As a result, i can have 64 different combinations of hair, shirt and trousers color with just one texture set. Actually, it can have even more but i was too lazy to figure out more combinations that look ok. Here's the male model walking around:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and72.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: IZACIZAC on January 22, 2014, 05:36:00 am
that looks quality, he looks like he's about to pick those red berries from the bush
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on January 22, 2014, 10:04:44 am
The legs seem to be a little short for the rest of the body, but then, there are real people just like that :)
Looks good!
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 23, 2014, 08:40:02 pm
The shirt looks a little modern, but not bad.  Having different color combinations is a good idea.  Glad you found some models. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 23, 2014, 08:52:57 pm
The shirt looks a little modern, but not bad. 
Yes, a little bit. The texture of the warrior looks more medival. I guess one with some talent (i.e. not me...) can repaint the texture to make it look more fantasy like. But that can be done at any time. For now, i'm glad that i can continue with some proper models.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Minigame on January 25, 2014, 06:10:10 am
Wow the way you implemented it came out great you clever dog! ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 26, 2014, 05:32:17 pm
Due to popular demand, i'll explain the npc coloring method in a little more detail. This is the base texture:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/npc.jpg)

For this, i created a coloring map. It looks like this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/npc_mask.png)

This map flags the hair as red, the trousers as green and the shirt as blue. This map is the second texture layer of the npc.

The idea is to write a shader can takes three additional color modifiers for the red, green and blue channels of the coloring map. So you read the base texture's color and multiply it with color_channel_intensity*color_modifier_for_channel for each channel and add up the results. The result has to be added to the base color multiplied with (1-color_channel_intensity) for each channel. The resulting fragment shader looks something like this:

Code: [Select]
precision highp float;

uniform sampler2D textureUnit0;
uniform sampler2D textureUnit1;

varying vec2 texCoord0;

varying vec4 vertexColor;
varying vec4 fogVertexColor;

uniform vec3 colorMul0;
uniform vec3 colorMul1;
uniform vec3 colorMul2;

void main (void)
{
vec4 col0 = texture2D(textureUnit0, texCoord0);
vec4 blend = texture2D(textureUnit1, texCoord0);

float w1=blend.r;
float w2=blend.g;
float w3=blend.b;

gl_FragColor = vertexColor *  mix(mix(mix(col0, col0*vec4(colorMul0, 1.0), w1), col0*vec4(colorMul1, 1.0), w2), col0*vec4(colorMul2, 1.0), w3) + fogVertexColor;
}

The mix/mix/mix-part might be hard to understand, so here's the actual operation of that part:

Code: [Select]
(vec4(col0.rgb*(1.0-w1)*(1.0-w2)*(1.0-w3),0.0) + vec4(col0.rgb*w1*colorMul0,0.0) + vec4(col0.rgb*w2*colorMul1,0.0) + vec4(col0.rgb*colorMul2*w3,0.0))
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 27, 2014, 04:48:56 am
How about showing a couple characters so we can see what it looks like?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2014, 10:12:42 pm
How about showing a couple characters so we can see what it looks like?
I would have to place several of them in the same spot, which i haven't done yet. I'll post something, when there's more to show.

In the meantime, i did some smaller tweaks here and there and i reworked the grass. I'm using a real 3d model now, not just a billboarded plane. That looks nicer, allows for more variety and isn't really much slower (maybe 5% fps drop). The old grass is still available as an option. The new one looks like this:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and73.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2014, 10:32:21 pm
I tried the game on my good old Nexus S and it worked surprisingly well. It wasn't particularly fast but it was playable and everything was in place and looked great... :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Minigame on February 05, 2014, 12:13:25 am
How exactly did you get the terrain to have roads and such? I've only been able to texture the object based on elevation  ???

Edit: To me, implementing defined trails would be the one feature that could turn a huge terrain into a scaled game world
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 05, 2014, 07:35:35 am
How exactly did you get the terrain to have roads and such? I've only been able to texture the object based on elevation  ???
I'm using a splatting texture and a shader for this. It's similar to the idea with the npc's colors. The last post in this thread briefly explain the idea: http://www.jpct.net/forum2/index.php/topic,2912.msg21431.html#msg21431 (http://www.jpct.net/forum2/index.php/topic,2912.msg21431.html#msg21431)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 13, 2014, 11:04:42 pm
To get inspired, i decided to play some old DOS rpg for a few hours...The Elder Scrolls: Arena! It's exactly as i remembered it: Massive, full of stuff...but quite repetitive. There's a lot of content in this one, but most of it is just plain dull. I had some fun playing it though and i will continue someday. Here's a screen shot:

(http://jpct.de/pix/arena.jpg)

Note that i played this on a "real device", i.e. on a real 486DX2-66 with DOS 6.22. No emulator or DOSBox...real hardware. It took me 1.5 evenings to build and install that machine... :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 15, 2014, 06:18:03 am
Even those two clouds are identical.  The only game I find still inspiring is Return to Krondor because it focused more on a story, although I never played Arena.  A strong story has always been important to me.  I'm not really stuck on the open world games that seem like endless quests.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 15, 2014, 09:51:24 am
Even those two clouds are identical.  The only game I find still inspiring is Return to Krondor because it focused more on a story, although I never played Arena.  A strong story has always been important to me.  I'm not really stuck on the open world games that seem like endless quests.
Arena's story is really dull...it's about some staff that is broken into 8 pieces. You have find them all to defeat the evil wizard. So the main quest is split into 8 parts, which are split into 2 sub-parts (retrieve x to get the information where to find the next piece, retrieve the piece). Back in the days, i didn't finish it because it was too boring. It still is...but on the other hand, it has something to it. I played it some more yesterday, because i actually wanted to play the new Might & Magic X but even after installing it from DVD, it had to download 8gig from the net, which took it's time. So i went into the basement and booted the good old 486...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: MemphisM on February 15, 2014, 10:40:04 am
Egon, is this project published somewhere?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 15, 2014, 11:43:59 am
Egon, is this project published somewhere?
No, not yet. It's still missing some gameplay elements to make it a real game. I just added the possibility for the player to die... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on April 12, 2014, 07:42:28 pm
Anything new? :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on April 14, 2014, 07:41:45 am
would love to try this one..

When is the release date ???
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on April 14, 2014, 08:38:04 am
The release date is far in the future. I'm coming close to a point where it seems reasonable to add some actual game play, but i'm still not quite there.

@Thomas.: Yes. I added a skill system and a character screen/skill tree and made the skills effect the combat. The player's damage is now based on character stats, the weapon and the skills. Outfitting the character in the inventory screen now has  effects on the player's stats. I also did a lot of minor things that i can't remember ATM. The next thing is to make the weapon switching work from the quick slots and making it possible to consume potions from them and stuff like that.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 13, 2014, 09:56:42 pm
Quick slots and weapon selection and stuff works fine so far. And finally, the first actual game related quest has been added. Albeit the basic dialog and quest system was already there, i still had to modify some things to make it work. But now you can receive and complete the first real quest... ;D It's a simple kill quest and it's intended as a kind of introduction into the game, but anyway...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on May 15, 2014, 01:55:00 am
All right, congratulations.  It's always nice to get started into the story.  I think an rpg would be very hard to connect all the side missions with the main plot. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 08, 2014, 12:03:22 am
Long time no screen shots, so i decided to make some to show a little progress. I worked on the first real quest as well as on the first real dungeon and on populating the first town that the player will visit (most likely). I added a tower model (not shown here) for the town and some new ceiling/floor tiles for the dungeon to make it look a little more real (also not shown here).
What is shown here, is a source of water that i wanted to add for ages but i couldn't find a free model that fitted. I finally found one and with some help of MeshLab, i reduced the polygon count enough to be able to add it into the game. This source isn't really that important for the game itself but it's important for the lore of the land, so i had to add it in some way.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and74.png)
The source of water (like a pond surrounded by rocks...)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and75.png)
...and a closer look
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 08, 2014, 10:14:05 am
Nice :) If you send me model, I can fix UVs ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 08, 2014, 02:50:25 pm
Nice :) If you send me model, I can fix UVs ;)
Thanks, i'll do that. The polygon reduction from 50000 to 2000 caused these texture distortions, i suppose.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: raft on June 09, 2014, 09:12:49 am
looks really very nice
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 09, 2014, 10:02:10 pm
If you send me model, I can fix UVs ;)
Here you go: http://jpct.de/download/tmp/fountain.zip (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/fountain.zip)

Edit: Don't care too much about the back of the model. The lower part will be hidden by some large rock anyway (which isn't part of this model).

Edit: Oh, and while you are at it: There's a small gap in the model when viewed from the right (you can see it in the closer view too where the ground is visible just behind the water surface)...if you could close that as well, that would be perfect... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 10, 2014, 07:39:03 pm
Here you are correct version. I also removed bottom triangles (about 10%). For mapping I used simple box mapping, so you can use any tile texture ;)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26148874/fountain.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26148874/fountain.zip)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 10, 2014, 09:39:06 pm
Here you are correct version. I also removed bottom triangles (about 10%). For mapping I used simple box mapping, so you can use any tile texture ;)
Nice, many thanks. It looks much better now, i've updated the close-up screen shot about with the new model. I really don't know what i would do without a helpful hand here and there when it comes to these things.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on June 11, 2014, 01:25:01 am
You're welcome ;) I can do some object in my free time, do you need some?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 12, 2014, 08:51:06 pm
I can do some object in my free time, do you need some?
I could use some dungeon decorations that provide visual variety without interacting with the player (i.e. don't require additional collision checks). Somethink like small stones on the ground or roots hanging from the ceiling or stuff like that.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on July 01, 2014, 08:25:40 pm
Do you want this model of chain?

(http://s20.postimg.org/qqx6ajpix/chain.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qqx6ajpix/)

It should looks like something at the left in the screen

http://www.1023bob.com/files/dungeon.jpg (http://www.1023bob.com/files/dungeon.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on July 02, 2014, 08:25:10 am
That would be nice... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 14, 2014, 11:34:13 pm
...did stuff...quite a lot. Mainly adding actual gameplay related things. Almost all the core mechanics are in now (they will need some tweaking but anyway) and i'm in the process of adding NPCs and quests for chapter one of the game. It's feels good to see the actual game progressing and not just the code base. However, after working quite a lot on improving the quest system and the alchemy system and such, i felt the urge to add some graphical fluff again and so i added birds. They serve no real purpose other than sitting around and picking and if you come too close, they fly away with some flapping sound. But they somehow make the world more lifely and give a sense to all the bird sounds that are playing while you are walking around.
I tried to capture them on a screen shot on the actual device, but i failed. They are too small to look good on a screen shot but they look really nice in game. So, for the desktop version, i tweaked the settings and allowed for hundreds of birds in a scene... ;D

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop6.png)

...and no, this is not how it will look in the normal game. I'll limit the number to 3 at a time for this.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on August 14, 2014, 11:39:41 pm
Awesome! Can't wait to see it in motion.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on August 24, 2014, 12:21:00 am
Glad to see you are still making progress.  One of the most ambitious single person games I know about.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 29, 2014, 09:11:31 pm
Oops...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop7.png)

I like how this huge pile of wood seems to astonish her...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on August 30, 2014, 07:41:51 pm
honestly birds are looking great very very inspirational but

the pile of wood is not looking gud at all very very low poly and unprofessional

Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on August 30, 2014, 07:43:33 pm
and the texture are also lacking details [wood] 8)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 30, 2014, 09:08:32 pm
The pile is actually fine...it's just that in this screen shot, it accidently has a size three times as big as the largest house, which is why it might look a bit less detailed than it does when scaled correctly.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on August 31, 2014, 04:16:53 pm
well..... if scaled down i think i wud be fine .....

Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on August 31, 2014, 04:26:28 pm
but do you really expect such an heavy (and i really mean heavy 300 pound) application to really run on Mobile...

not that I am demotivating you no not by any chance SIR not at all.

just that I have a very decent tab ( by the way now i also am an owner of lenovo t 400 lappy) that runs android 4.2.2 and using some advanced shaders that thomas helped me (shadow mapping + cel shaders )  with and just a few objects AND NO  collision detection ( which i believe the the most fps consuming thing) I compile a simple app with all objects set to shadow mapping and already it went robotic (22 fps) so when you using so many objects how are you going handle the girly tenderous personality of mobile hardware ,,,, ???

Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on August 31, 2014, 06:13:57 pm
It depends on your target frame rate and the available hardware at the release date. In it's current state, it runs at 22-35 fps on a Nexus 4 and that includes sound, path finding, ai and collision detection for the player, projectiles and enemies. Given that a release is still in the far future and that i consider 25 fps to be good enough for a RPG, i don't see any real performance problems. If nothing else helps (on low end devices for example) i can scale it down by reducing the amount of grass patches.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on August 31, 2014, 10:17:57 pm
would be waiting to try the beta as soon it releases  :o
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on August 31, 2014, 10:26:42 pm
yes you mustt add the option of quality in the settings menu :

that is -

Settings >> Graphics >> Very Low | Low | Medium | High | Extraordinary

That way you will reach the maximum audience as your game would be playable on maximum devices
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on September 01, 2014, 11:10:49 am
If there are multiple detail settings, the app should choose one automatically by measuring the speed of the device. Manual setup is PC territory.  ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 01, 2014, 11:25:27 am
If there are multiple detail settings, the app should choose one automatically by measuring the speed of the device. Manual setup is PC territory.  ;)
I actually don't like this automatic approach, because it never really worked well for me. These solutions tend to be too conservative for my taste. But anyway, it's all in the future. There are many other issues to deal with first.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on September 01, 2014, 04:55:09 pm
Maybe a good middle ground would be to determine a (presumable) optimal setting but let the user override it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 10, 2014, 08:29:25 am
I made a new video, this time with footage from the the desktop version (because of the higher image quality and such...). The game engine is almost feature complete now (still lacks balancing though), but the content has to be added, which will take a lot of time too...

Anyway, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJf2B3tlg5Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJf2B3tlg5Y)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: sushobhit on September 10, 2014, 06:08:50 pm
so at last the Clay getting shaped into Pot...

the video looks quite promising..
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on September 11, 2014, 03:27:16 pm
Nice, do you know release date of demo/beta?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 11, 2014, 06:24:13 pm
No, it's too far in the future. I plan on doing 4 virtual chapters of which i have the first one completed by maybe 20%...still a lot of work to do...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 14, 2014, 10:36:14 pm
I'm in the process of adding levels to the dungeons. Visuals are ok so far, but they don't do anything ATM. These stairs are, just like the walls, flat, parallax mapped polygons. Doesn't look too shabby at least not from a distance.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop8.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on September 21, 2014, 07:08:29 am
Really liked the video.  Looks like it will be a fun game with the right quests and story.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 02, 2014, 09:52:15 pm
In addition to male and female npcs, male monks and male warriors, i've added another kind of npc...a boy:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop9.png)

Sadly, i've no girl model but anyway...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 12, 2014, 12:00:39 am
Fixed a few bugs, added more game play (quests, locations, npcs...)...and finally replaced the ugly fence model:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and77.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on October 12, 2014, 11:47:06 pm
Very nice.  A different type of tree, like a pine, would be nice to add a little variety if the processor could handle it.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on October 13, 2014, 08:59:54 pm
There are different trees (if you look close, you can spot the trunk of one at the far right), but no pine trees. I don't think that they fit well into the rest of the landscape and given their basic structure, they don't render very well with alpha blending unless you split them into several objects.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 12, 2014, 10:59:50 pm
I've completed the first versions of the dialogs, npcs and quests for the first chapter of the main quest. That's actually more than it sounds, because the first chapter is rather long. The second one will be somewhat shorter, the third one even shorter and the fourth one is more like an epilog. It's still missing most side quests (albeit there are some already) and the actual quest locations (aka dungeons). You can already complete the quests, but the dungeons are mostly a small room with the quest item in the center.

After typing so much text into large XML-files, i had to do some visual stuff again. So i added the option to define sections of the woods where mostly birch trees grow. I like birch trees!

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and78.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 12, 2014, 11:55:57 pm
BTW: Can anybody around here fix a little uv-flaw in the birch tree model? It's in 3ds format.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on November 13, 2014, 05:02:59 pm
BTW: Can anybody around here fix a little uv-flaw in the birch tree model? It's in 3ds format.

no problem ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 13, 2014, 07:58:11 pm
no problem ;)
That's cool. The issue is the same that i had with my first tree model. In the ~middle of the trunk, there's a point where the texture "flips", i.e. it goes from the roots to that point and then continues up to the branches in a mirrored way. That's all fine and looks good, but at that particular point, the bilinear filter blends the trunk with the first line of the upper half of the texture, which is transparent (because it contains the leafs). And because the whole tree is rendered transparent (you don't see this, but it is), there's a transparent line at this point especially on mobile devices and when using mip maps. The solution is to change the uv mapping of that part to leave out a few upper lines of the lower half of the texture, so that it doesn't bleed into the transparent part.

Here's the model: http://jpct.de/download/tmp/birchtree.zip (http://jpct.de/download/tmp/birchtree.zip)

And here's a screen shot that shows the position (the effect isn't that noticable here because...desktop):

(http://jpct.de/download/tmp/birch.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on November 14, 2014, 10:13:28 pm
Oh, there is something wrong with import, model completely lost UVs. Could you save it in another format?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26148874/Bez%20n%C3%A1zvu.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 14, 2014, 10:31:15 pm
That's caused by my stupidity!  :-[ I bundled the right texture with the wrong model. I've reuploaded the zip, it should be fine now.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on November 15, 2014, 08:46:49 am
Is it better? I could not replicate the problem.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26148874/birchtree2.3ds (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26148874/birchtree2.3ds)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 15, 2014, 10:15:26 pm
It's better but not fixed and it introduces some seams that weren't there before. I understand that you can't reproduce it...you would have to render it on a mobile device with transparency and mipmaps enabled and it might differ from gpu to gpu in strenght too. Anyway, i try to explain what i had in mind to fix it based on this image:

(http://jpct.de/download/tmp/birchtree_bark.jpg)

At the moment, the mapping starts with the bottom of the trunk mapped with the bottom of the texture and then it goes up like the red arrow to the left shows. Then it flips to the right side (mapping wise) and maps from the top of the tree down to the end of the red arrow. Where they both meet, the problem occurs. Simply because the bilinear filter starts to blend in parts of the upper half of the texture, which is transparent (or white in this case). My idea was to "simply" limit the u/v coords so that they don't go all the way up (or down) like the red arrow does but do it like the green arrow shows. There won't be a seam that way and no accidental blending with the upper half either.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on November 16, 2014, 11:46:22 am
So, if I understood it correctly, it should be fine now.

(http://s29.postimg.org/vhl8rm3ur/Bez_n_zvu.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vhl8rm3ur/)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26148874/birchtree.3ds (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26148874/birchtree.3ds)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 17, 2014, 07:49:17 am
Looks fine now except for a tiny artifact in the smallest mipmap stages. But i think that i can fix this in my mipmap generation code. Thanks for your help!  :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 17, 2014, 10:22:25 pm
I always had this feeling that something was missing in the world...now i know:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and79.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Wolf17 on November 20, 2014, 05:43:01 pm
  Just curious :)!  Are you planning to have multiple character classes ?
One more thing .....   The fence and door appears to be kinda floaty ! 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 20, 2014, 08:59:05 pm
  Just curious :)!  Are you planning to have multiple character classes ?
No, there won't be character classes. You'll have a skill tree and some basic character attributes like strength and dexterity and things like that. Every character can learn every skill (as long as he/she has enough skill points, of course). I'm still undecided about the attributes though. I might base them on the player's answers to some questions at the beginning like the old Elder Scrolls games do it or let the player distribute them directly or maybe a mix of both...we'll see.

One more thing .....   The fence and door appears to be kinda floaty !
The door is floaty, because it doesn't touch the ground. The fence isn't floaty. I see what you mean, but that's just how it looks without shadows and SSAO. It looks better in motion.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 01, 2014, 10:03:55 pm
Added levers to the dungeons to close/open doors. Actually, i hadn't planned for this, but it will add some variation, i guess.

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_dun16.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on December 02, 2014, 11:17:24 pm
Is it something like is in my game (linear) or just up/down? You could also add some traps.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 02, 2014, 11:22:33 pm
Just up and down...it opens doors, which are either open or closed. Traps...well, i don't think so. The focus isn't too much on making the dungeon crawling feeling like old school.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 04, 2014, 11:31:07 pm
 ;D

The first version of the main quest is complete now as far as dialogs and quests are concerned. It's still missing all the dungeons that it will finally include but you can play through it already with a lot of "fake" dungeons (i.e. very small ones that only contain the quests items in a chest).

I had to write 244 dialog entries for it so far... :P
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 29, 2015, 10:32:31 pm
The game now includes 42 NPCs with dialog still missing for <10 of them. After that dialog and the side-quests have been added, i have to go into the ground and build the actual dungeons...but for today, i've added pine trees. The are using a custom shader with stippled alpha instead of full alpha blending and slightly modified animations.

(http://www.jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and80.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: AeroShark333 on January 29, 2015, 10:37:53 pm
Those leaves sure do look realistic!
Nice work
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 31, 2015, 12:53:33 pm
Nice! When will be released demo/beta with few quests? :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 01, 2015, 11:07:32 pm
Nice! When will be released demo/beta with few quests? :)
That's a good question! Once i have the dungeons done and applied some basic balancing to the mechanics, i suppose. I've no idea when this will be the case though. With this game, i'll blatantly ignore the good advise that you should let people play your game as early as possible. Well...actually, i've always ignored this advise for myself, but i would give it to anybody else... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 02, 2015, 05:08:58 pm
Pines look nice.  Glad you are making progress.  Myself, I've found that releasing too early can totally kill my ambition.  No one means too, but they give criticism on what they see without the imagination to see where I am going with it.  It needs to be in the beta stage for me.  Also, most people probably won't replay it, so if it's too early, I lose all my useful testers.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 02, 2015, 08:32:25 pm
I think that you actually need people that have a special relationship with games, like other game developers or designers for this to work. The normal gamer would just compare your game to Witcher 3, Call of Duty or FarCry 4 and tell you that it sucks. People claiming that you should do this are mainly from the game industry themselves. They might have no problem to find these testers, but us hobbyists do...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 02, 2015, 11:38:57 pm
Yeah, that's pretty much the problem.  It's not their fault or anything, that's just all they've been playing.  It's nice to find other developers that are willing to test because it's a world of difference.  Then again, you are going to end up with those Witcher 3 people eventually.  I find I have to hone my graphics so they just look kind of bad but still playable for those type.  It's kind of like a salesman getting his foot in the door.  Luckily we've had things like Minecraft to kind of tone down people's expectations.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 13, 2015, 10:37:36 pm
Created two more texture sets for the dungeons. I plan on using four, so there's still one to go...

(http://jpct.de/pix/dungeon_look.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 14, 2015, 09:14:47 pm
That will help a lot for variety, although more difference in color tone would help also, like more of a brownish.  You've made amazing progress.  Huge project. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 14, 2015, 09:49:09 pm
That will help a lot for variety, although more difference in color tone would help also, like more of a brownish.
That's why i added the forth, the red one today. I actually had one in brown, but it somehow didn't feel right.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 14, 2015, 11:45:54 pm
You've made amazing progress.  Huge project.
The current state of the game is this: All NPCs, dialogs and quests are in. All locations are in as well (towns, dungeons, special places,...). However, almost all of the dungeons are single room ones ATM that exist only to provide the items and enemies that are needed for the quests. I'm currently 'drawing' the actual dungeon maps in a text editor, which is quite a lot of work, because i need at least 30 of them.
After this is done, the game will actually be playable and the balancing starts. In parallel, i'll have to convince some poor soul, who's a native english speaker, to read all my english translations and correct spelling and style...that will become an interesting task...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 15, 2015, 02:20:15 am
Well, I'm a native English speaker.  I've had some college English and writing classes.  I don't think you'll have much for problems judging by your responses.  I'd be happy to help, though.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 15, 2015, 04:19:24 pm
That's an offer that i can't refuse... ;) But it really is quite a lot of text...but then again, there's no deadline to meet and i really want the english translation to be good (as far as my writing skills permit it...). The largest part of the text is dialog. Quest descriptions and item names are another, but they make only around 5%-10%. The dialog text is stored in a bunch of XML-files, which is ok for me but it might be tedious to edit inside these files for others.
So my idea is this: I'll write a simple web-application that lets you select one of these files, then chose one of the NPCs inside the file and then edit the english version of the dialog for this NPC. You can then write the changes back into the XML and all the modified parts will be flaged as...well, modified. That would allow you to work on these texts whenever you feel like it and i can grab and even update the latest version whenever i have to. Does this sound reasonable?
Or i can dump them all into some text document and send it to you as well, if that's prefered...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on March 16, 2015, 12:52:46 am
Sounds good.  Just let me know when you get the application working.  Like you say, this is something I'll need to do a little at a time, but I have quite a bit of free time and I really don't mind that kind of thing at all.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 16, 2015, 08:25:09 am
Cool. I've already started working on the webapp yesterday. I'll finish it in the next few days.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Wolf17 on March 16, 2015, 06:25:41 pm
   Very Nice Progress !  :) THe texture set at upper right corner and lower left corner are pretty realistic!In fact the one at the upper right corner feels quite creepy ! I wont like to dwell there in real life  ;)! The bumpmap is prominent in both these two. I think the red one(lower right corner) can be tweaked more ?
Whatever,....Your project inspires a lot ! You do it all alone.....It must be quite hard  to do all the graphics and coding, debugging etc...?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 17, 2015, 09:10:34 pm
Whatever,....Your project inspires a lot ! You do it all alone.....It must be quite hard  to do all the graphics and coding, debugging etc...?
Thanks! I take my time, so it's actually not that hard. For graphics and sounds, i'm using third party assets for the most parts. Either by permission or they come freely with a fitting license or i buy them for small money from turbosquid.com or graphicriver.net. The project isn't commercial, which makes these things a lot easier. If it would be commercial, assets would but much more of a problem. Coding and debugging actually isn't that hard, just tedious at times. What consumed a lot of time was writing dialog, quests and lore. I have a 60 pages design document that contains additional descriptions for enemies, towns, npcs and general lore of the world. Not all of these will make it into the game, but i think that it's important to have it anyway. It defines the world and prevents me from adding stuff that isn't consistent with the world.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 17, 2015, 09:51:10 pm
Sounds good.  Just let me know when you get the application working.  Like you say, this is something I'll need to do a little at a time, but I have quite a bit of free time and I really don't mind that kind of thing at all.
You should have received a PM with further details...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 17, 2015, 10:13:41 pm
Nice progress, It sounds like nearby release date :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on March 17, 2015, 10:20:33 pm
Depends on what "nearby" means...I still have to layout and populate almost all of the dungeons  and playtest the whole thing. After that is done, i've to spend time on the character creation and polishing stuff, especially the UI.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on March 17, 2015, 11:08:51 pm
I'm ideal tester ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 06, 2015, 11:45:45 pm
...I tried to run through the dungeon while ignoring the enemies around me...it didn't work out that well... ;)

(http://jpct.de/pix/crowded.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on May 28, 2015, 05:07:59 pm
Anything new? I can try it on my new Galaxy S6 ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on May 28, 2015, 07:13:47 pm
I'm still in the process of populating the dungeons. In theory. But I had to finish GTA V and I now have to play The Witcher 3...only for inspiration of course. Once I'm done with that, I'll go back to my dungeons... :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on June 16, 2015, 10:18:47 pm
Filled the last dungeon of the first story branch with stuff, i.e. this is the fight against the final boss (of that particular story line. There will actually be 2 different endings with different end bosses).

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_desktop11.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on June 23, 2015, 01:58:52 pm
Looking good. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 02, 2015, 11:13:43 pm
A little fly through video that I made using a record and playback option for player movement. I added this option to record a simple end sequence, but I used it for this little video for now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBkFNGUHMjU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBkFNGUHMjU)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: gamenewer on September 11, 2015, 08:47:47 am
Hello Egon, It's great  ! Are you use Bones animation in you project?  thanks !
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 11, 2015, 10:09:20 am
Hello Egon, It's great  ! Are you use Bones animation in you project?  thanks !
No, I'm not. It's all keyframe animations.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: gamenewer on September 14, 2015, 03:39:48 am
How to choise between keyframe animations and Bones animation ?  if it make game size bigger use keyframe animations? Which Performace  is better ?  Thanks .. .:)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 14, 2015, 08:11:32 am
Usually, keyframes have better performance but skeletal uses less memory. I went with keyframes for two reasons:

Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: gamenewer on September 14, 2015, 11:00:21 am
Thanks a lot, I noticed  Bones  project almost not change for years, Is it the best for skeletal ? I  found someone use hardware(GPU) skinning for skeletal, If Bones project need upgrade ?   I hope you can understand   my mean ( for my poor english)   ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on September 14, 2015, 12:22:25 pm
Let's put it that way: Bones & jPCT-AE can handle animations at a performance that others have been thinking that it has to be hard skinning (which it's not). So if you want to use skeletal animations, I would recommend to go with Bones and see how it goes. It should be fast enough for almost anything that a mobile device can handle.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: gamenewer on September 14, 2015, 01:24:13 pm
Oh, thank you Egon ! :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 05, 2015, 10:58:04 pm
Moved the initial resource loading to a seperate thread to stop it from blocking the rendering thread and allowing for a proper loading screen and a progress bar. I spend hours trying to find a fitting title image with a proper license...I finally gave up and created something by myself. But because I suck at such things, the result is...acceptable, I hope...anyway, here it is:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_title.png)

I somebody has an idea on how to improve it or what to use instead, I will be grateful.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Gatobot14 on November 07, 2015, 03:41:03 am
you could render a very important area of the map of your game and apply some fancy effects, or a "reallystic" image like thos cover  from old rpg, or a real picture of a forest with more fancy effects to make it look like a render
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on November 14, 2015, 10:52:29 pm
I think it looks pretty good.  I'm not sure what you could do to improve it or anything.  It's simple, but gets the message across.  Lettering looks good.  Not sure I like it off center, but it's OK.  If I had it off center like that, I would balance it with some kind of symbol.  I think a symbol or something would also help because the background is somewhat simple, but it would need to pertain to the game in some way.  It's really fine the way it is, though.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 14, 2015, 11:37:01 pm
...or a real picture of a forest with more fancy effects to make it look like a render
That's actually what this is... ;) I tried to make it looks like a painting...somehow...Because a totally realistic looking image just doesn't fit the game IMHO.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 14, 2015, 11:40:40 pm
Not sure I like it off center, but it's OK.  If I had it off center like that, I would balance it with some kind of symbol.
I played around with the position and I had it centered first, but it somehow didn't look right. So I kinda aligned it with the sword. I agree that some symbol would be fitting, but I don't have any nor do I have any idea how it should look like. I'll think about it and see if I come up with something....
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 19, 2015, 11:06:24 pm
I made a trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9QyG6H03-M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9QyG6H03-M)...with limited talent and Windows Movie Maker, so don't expect tooo much... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on November 20, 2015, 07:40:25 am
It looks perfect! When the game will be released?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 20, 2015, 08:37:29 am
Early 2016 or maybe even late 2015....I'll see how it goes. All that's left is to proofread all the german texts and do another play through...and create a decent looking icon and page for Google Play, of course.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on November 21, 2015, 02:40:41 am
Looks fantastic. Nice  to see it come together after so long. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on November 21, 2015, 11:53:09 am
That's great. Can I out help with proofreading or anything else?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 22, 2015, 11:16:27 pm
That's great. Can I out help with proofreading or anything else?
I'm already done with the proofreading, but thanks for the offer.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on November 29, 2015, 10:20:53 pm
Finishing touches... ;) I bought a cheap, low poly monk statue model, mainly for the monastery. But why not place it the wilderness as well? People can bring their offerings to it...and you can loot them... ;)

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and82.png)

Edit: ...and this is the GUI in left-handed mode

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/rpg_and83.png)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on December 06, 2015, 09:28:03 pm
That's a good idea.  You could probably use it to restore health or add abilities also.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 20, 2015, 09:39:13 pm
I'm still working on some loose ends. I've added a sign posts that should help you to find the right path. If you touch them, a message appears that tells you the direction. But if you are able to read these signs by touching them, the same has to work for the signs that are attached to shops and tavern...so I added this as well. I also added a new sound for the wilderness, a kind of bee humming.

However, the biggest issue was performance on my new Nexus 5X in dungeons. Because the GPU governor (the part of the OS that takes care of the GPU's clock frequency) thinks that it's a good idea to clock the GPU down to 180Mhz in dungeons after some seconds for whatever reason (it doesn't do this in the wilderness). There's no way to change this, so I had to increase performance in some other ways. My worst case was a dungeon that consists of many small rooms...I got ~17fps on my shiny new device in parts of this dungeon.

So I optimized jPCT-AE's light calculations as well as the dungeon rendering process of the game and I'm now at ~26fps at the exact same spot with no visual impact at all.

While I was profiling the engine's code, I found out that the multiplyMM()-method from the Android SDK actually sucks:

http://developer.android.com/reference/android/opengl/Matrix.html (http://developer.android.com/reference/android/opengl/Matrix.html) (I can't link directly to it because the forum won't let me)

It's in native code, so it should be fast. And maybe it is, but the overhead of calling it hurts it more than it helps. I replaced my calls to it with my own, Java based implementation and it's 4 times as fast on Android 6/Nexus 5X and even 5 times faster on the Note 1 with it's trusty Dalvik VM. This method has to date back to the early days, where the VM was so slow that going native here made sense...but not today anymore.


Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on December 22, 2015, 11:17:09 pm
When I worked on the game I had in my todo list something like "change lighting model depending on the object and pixel distance". But I am not sure if this is applicable for long triangles...

My Galaxy S6 has the same problem in GPU governor. But I think that if the GPU temperature increases, governor decreases its frequency. So you get full GPU power of your device only for maybe one minute. Excellent.

Are you using native display resolution? On S6 is pointless all higher than 1440x900.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on December 23, 2015, 12:32:25 am
Yes, i'm using the native resolution.

You are right about the temperature. If I rest the phone on the cooling pad, it works better. However, this doesn't happen in some other 3D demos that I've tried (They happily render at 600Mhz all the time) nor in the wilderness.
My guess is that the GPU clocks down if there's no huge workload in the form of a hugh mesh. In the wilderness, I have the terrain, which is quite large but in the dungeon, there's no such thing. All the drawcalls only draw rather small objects, which might lead the governor into thinking that it's a good time to clock down.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on December 23, 2015, 09:26:12 am
It is very strange, because this governor fails exactly in these situations. Nice lighting model, post effects, but device is running at 20fps, because is underclocked...
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 22, 2016, 10:27:48 am
I had to do an additional title graphics for the Play Store, so I bought some stuff (I was lucky, because the background image that I bought has been uploaded only recently) on the web and tweaked and combined it as good as I could. The end result won't win any prices, but it's good enough, I guess. So I decided to use it as the new loading image as well, because I was never really satisfied with the former one. Here it is:

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/Title_new.jpg)

And about the state of the project: All that's left now is actually the Play Store icon. I'm still waiting for it to be finished. Once that's done, the game will go public.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Thomas. on January 22, 2016, 10:35:59 am
Image is really good and much better than the first one. For icon may be used knight from this image.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 22, 2016, 10:40:15 am
Thanks! The icon will be done by a co-worker of mine. But I guess he's a kind of perfectionist, so he takes his time... ;)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on January 22, 2016, 07:31:29 pm
I like it, but it might give the impression it's a 2d game.   You'll probably be able to show some in game shots, also?
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on January 23, 2016, 09:27:56 am
Sure. Google play has a section for screen shots as well.
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 01, 2016, 11:26:33 pm
The game now has an icon for Google Play and such...

(http://jpct.de/jpctnet/img/naroth_icon.png)

Edit: I also changed the title screen slightly to have this icon as the shield's emblem (see some posts above...).
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: fireside on February 04, 2016, 10:42:53 pm
That's kind of what I had in mind when I suggested one beside the title on the other opening screen.  Did you try it, or don't you think it would work?  I think a larger view in front of the title, or possibly centered below it,  would look good as a sort of game symbol.  It looks cool on the shield, but I think it could be used in both places. 
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 04, 2016, 10:52:15 pm
I tried it, but it looked a bit stuffed to me, so I decided against it for now. I'm sure there's a way to do it properly for somebody with more artistic skills...anyway, if the world keeps turning, tomorrow will be the day where I'll press the "publish" button on Google Play and hope for the best... :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: Irony on February 05, 2016, 10:01:52 am
I am actually pretty excited to hear that! We'll help to spread the word  :)
Title: Re: Thinking about some RPG..Android version.
Post by: EgonOlsen on February 06, 2016, 02:49:26 pm
It's out, so let's continue here: http://www.jpct.net/forum2/index.php/topic,4615.0.html (http://www.jpct.net/forum2/index.php/topic,4615.0.html)